Christian Ponder Improving

[PurpleKoolaid]

Because the guys we have starting outside of Harvin would be #3 or #4 receivers at best on the majority of NFL rosters and there's a good chance if released today Burton and Aromashodu (and possibly even Jenkins) probably wouldn't even be added to anyone's 53? You forgot to extrapolate Burton.

BS. Again, with a competent QB, thats accurate and has some arm stregth, our WRs would look good. Ive personally seen guys wide open that Ponder misses, and ive heard about alot more that were open on shows like Rosens sports Sunday. We dont have the best WRs in the NFL, your right, We dont have Megatron. But i promise you, Peyton would make us look like a playoff contender (if our D wasnt so horrible.). Please people, quit making excusses for Ponder. Mustgrave isnt going to call many medium to long routes until Ponder calms down and gains some confidence. Then maybe we can become a normal team, with the pass setting up the run.

[dead_poet]

BS. Again, with a competent QB, thats accurate and has some arm stregth, our WRs would look good. Ive personally seen guys wide open that Ponder misses, and ive heard about alot more that were open on shows like Rosens sports Sunday. We dont have the best WRs in the NFL, your right, We dont have Megatron. But i promise you, Peyton would make us look like a playoff contender (if our D wasnt so horrible.). Please people, quit making excusses for Ponder. Mustgrave isnt going to call many medium to long routes until Ponder calms down and gains some confidence.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see any of our current receivers (Harvin, Simpson excluded) getting a workout by another NFL team if cut today. I think that speaks volumes about their abilities. Jenkins might get a look from the Dolphins as a third down insurance blanket. Burton and Aromashodu barely made the team this year and the latter has already been cut by four different teams. Also telling.

Better receivers would make Ponder look better. A better QB would make our receivers look better. That's the way it works. From what I've seen so far, Ponder has been doing his job a bit better than our receivers (outside of Harvin) have been doing theirs.

Then maybe we can become a normal team, with the pass setting up the run.

As opposed to those horrible teams doing it backwards. Like Houston and San Francisco.

[PurpleKoolaid]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see any of our current receivers (Harvin, Simpson excluded) getting a workout by another NFL team if cut today. I think that speaks volumes about their abilities. Jenkins might get a look from the Dolphins as a third down insurance blanket. Burton and Aromashodu barely made the team this year and the latter has already been cut by four different teams. Also telling.

Better receivers would make Ponder look better. A better QB would make our receivers look better. That's the way it works. From what I've seen so far, Ponder has been doing his job a bit better than our receivers (outside of Harvin) have been doing theirs.

But you do see them lining up to sign Ponder???

[dead_poet]

But you do see them lining up to sign Ponder???

If Ponder was cut today, there would be NFL teams interested in his services. Of that I have no doubt.

[Crax]

I'm interested to hear what people consider "open". Matt Ryan made a precise throw to Gonzales running across the middle with the defender right on him. The throw was in the perfect place for Tony to use his body/length to grab it without the defender having the chance to do so. This wasn't the case of someone blowing by the other guy or outjumping them. Just a good route with a precise throw. Are our "slow" receivers unable to run a good route?

[Mothman]

Please. We are down to silly rhetoric?.

No, and I apologize for the comment. I'm just expressing a little frustration at how, in thread after thread, there are so many fans unwilling to give Ponder the benefit the doubt on almost anything. If he leaves the pocket, he's panicking. If he leaves the pocket and doesn't throw the ball to a receiver, it's not because they aren't open but because he can't see them or isn't looking for them. If he doesn't throw downfield it's because he's "scared" or because he's too conservative, not because the play isn't there to be made or because he's being smart and not forcing a pass into coverage. It just goes on and on and honestly, isn't the suggestion suggestion that receivers not getting open could be 80% Ponder's a little silly? I understand the implication that Ponder may not be seeing open receivers but failing to see open receivers isn't the same as receivers themselves not getting open.

I know everyone likes to harp on Ponder's "awesome" stats, but I find it hard to believe how many will put the woes of the passing game solely at the feet of our receivers - assuming of course they have watched the games at all (and being a newcomer to Sunday Ticket, I have watched every wretched minute).

I have too... twice! The receivers get open on some routes. Jenkins is pretty good at running short, inside routes, shielding defenders with his body and making a catch. However, he, Aromashodu and Burton all struggle to get separation from defenders.

For what it's worth, I don't put the woes of the passing game solely on the receivers and never have... some of it's on Musgrave, some of it's on Ponder, some on the o-line... but it's painfully obvious that the receivers inability to get separation downfield IS a big part of the problem.

[Cliff]

I'm interested to hear what people consider "open". Matt Ryan made a precise throw to Gonzales running across the middle with the defender right on him. The throw was in the perfect place for Tony to use his body/length to grab it without the defender having the chance to do so. This wasn't the case of someone blowing by the other guy or outjumping them. Just a good route with a precise throw. Are our "slow" receivers unable to run a good route?

The question isn't really "can the Viking recievers get open at all?". The answer to that is an obvious yes. Ponder has the highest completion percentage in the league right now at 75.8%. I believe that is to 8 different WRs and he's tied with Phillip Rivers for 17th in total years.

So recievers are getting open *and* Ponder is completing passes to them.

The real question is can the WRs get downfield, get open, and accomplish both things in time enough for Ponder to get rid of the ball before he gets smashed? Aside from Harvin (who also doesn't do it reliably) who on the team (and not suspended) currently fits that description?

[dead_poet]

Are our "slow" receivers unable to run a good route?

Aromashodu is not a good route-runner. Or hasn't been, historically.

Aromashodu has intriguing size (6'2/201) and straight-line speed, but he's a stiff route runner and struggles to get open.

Jeremy Fowler on Twitter

Free agent Devin Aromashodu's 33.3 percent catch rate was the lowest of any NFL receiver who played at least a third of his team's offensive snaps.

After struggling to catch the ball, run routes, and beat man coverage, Aromashodu seems unlikely to return to Minnesota in 2012.

ESPN 1500 on Twitter

Free agent Devin Aromashodu could have a deal with the Vikings soon, according to Bears beat writer Sean Jensen.

Aromashodu fell out of favor in Chicago after getting passed up by Johnny Knox on the depth chart last season. He couldn't play the slot, wasn't a plus blocker and doesn't run good routes.

Sean Jeansen on Twitter

Free agent Devinn Aromashodu is not expected back with the Bears after they declined him a tender offer Thursday.

After reeling in 22 catches for 282 yards and four scores in the final four games of the 2009 season, Aromashodu completely disappeared last year, notching just 10 catches for 149 yards. A poor route runner and blocker, he's unlikely to generate a ton of interest on the open market

Chicago Tribune

The Chicago Tribune's Brad Biggs believes Devin Aromashodu needs a fresh start on another team if he "wants to jumpstart his career."

Aromashodu is slated for restricted free agency, and the Bears obviously don't place a high value on his skill-set. Aromashodu doesn't play special teams, can't handle slot work, and hasn't shown the consistent hands and route running of a starter. Expect him to play elsewhere in 2011.

Chicago Tribune

[dead_poet]

The question isn't really "can the Viking recievers get open at all?". The answer to that is an obvious yes. Ponder has the highest completion percentage in the league right now at 75.8%. I believe that is to 8 different WRs and he's tied with Phillip Rivers for 17th in total years.

So recievers are getting open *and* Ponder is completing passes to them.

The real question is can the WRs get downfield, get open, and accomplish both things in time enough for Ponder to get rid of the ball before he gets smashed? Aside from Harvin (who also doesn't do it reliably) who on the team (and not suspended) currently fits that description?

Well put.

[PurpleKoolaid]

The question isn't really "can the Viking recievers get open at all?". The answer to that is an obvious yes. Ponder has the highest completion percentage in the league right now at 75.8%. I believe that is to 8 different WRs and he's tied with Phillip Rivers for 17th in total years.

So recievers are getting open *and* Ponder is completing passes to them.

The real question is can the WRs get downfield, get open, and accomplish both things in time enough for Ponder to get rid of the ball before he gets smashed? Aside from Harvin (who also doesn't do it reliably) who on the team (and not suspended) currently fits that description?

Most of Pnders throws are short passes. Almost any NFL, even Tjoke, could complete them. I think Mustgrave isnt calling londer routes because he doesnt have faith in Ponder yet. Last year made him gun shy. Thats why we should have given him some WRs to throw to, not more TE's, that are already considred injury prone.

[PurpleMustReign]

Well put.

He's tied with Rivers for what?

He needs protection to be able to throw a deep ball. He isn't getting that consistently yet. That's what I am seeing anyway.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Remember when Farve came here? Rice wasnt considered a great route runner either. But after Favre was here he sure was. Its the whole chicken/egg thing.

But I still blame Spielman for couting on 2 rookies, Childs who is out, and Wright who is injured. Look at the good teams around the legue and how mch they havent spent on WRs. then look at us. We got 1 decent slot/gimmic WR. No ones a downfield threat (not that I think Ponder could get it to them on time).

[Cliff]

He's tied with Rivers for what?

He needs protection to be able to throw a deep ball. He isn't getting that consistently yet. That's what I am seeing anyway.

Total yards ^_^

[Cliff]

Ponder: 'One thing we lack is big plays"

“That’s one thing we’re lacking is big plays,” Ponder said on Wednesday. “Obviously we want to strive to get better at and make those progressions and making those plays. We’re not going to force things downfield. We’re going to keep taking what the defense gives us, but we’re going to do some things to try to create big plays. That’s one area we can get better at.”

http://www.wctrib.com/event/article/id/98142/

[dead_poet]

Remember when Farve came here? Rice wasnt considered a great route runner either. But after Favre was here he sure was. Its the whole chicken/egg thing.

I don't recall a knock on Rice ever being his route-running. Can you point to that? Regardless, even if that were true, he made up for it with his size/body control/leaping ability. If Devin was able to compensate in some measurable way, that'd be another thing. Unfortunately his greatest asset is running in a straight line, and even that isn't all that impressive. I think if any of our receivers could compensate for their lack of talent in one area by being superb in another we'd know it by now and be exploiting it. Say, if Burton was a precise route-runner, I'm guessing we'd have heard that. Or if Jenkins consistently wins contested balls. That hasn't happened. They are what they are. Unfortunately, many aren't very good.

But I still blame Spielman for couting on 2 rookies, Childs who is out, and Wright who is injured. Look at the good teams around the legue and how mch they havent spent on WRs. then look at us. We got 1 decent slot/gimmic WR. No ones a downfield threat (not that I think Ponder could get it to them on time).

They weren't going to get into a bidding war for Garcon or Jackson. Given how much they received, I'm fine with it. Do I wish we had Jackson anyway? You bet.

Rice left for free agency for mega $$ the year before. I don't know what more you wanted. If not for the injury, Childs could have been the answer for us and Spielman may have looked like a genius (in some eyes) and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Who knows? We all knew, though, that we couldn't address all of the holes this team has in a single offseason. Hopefully we get another playmaker in Simpson and/or draft/sign a stud next season (while extending Harvin) and this ends up being a blip on the radar for a rebuilding team.