Vikes/Colts post-game thoughts

[Mothman]

That was a tough loss but the Vikings made too many mistakes and left too many plays on the field to deserve a win. They sabotaged themselves with penalties throughout the game, missed blocks, dropped potential first downs, missed potential sacks and INTs, etc.

After watching the first two games of this season I'm already convinced the team's biggest need by FAR is an impact player (or three!) on defense. They have some good players but not enough "finishers" and true difference-makers.

I hope the young players in the secondary improve because right now, they're pretty brutal.

Kudos to Burton for the crazy/lucky TD catch and to Ponder for leading the team back in the 4th quarter two weeks in a row. Harvin's effort today was heroic. I thought the rest of the team was uneven-to-bad. Redding was having his way with the offensive line much of the time.

In the end, I think penalties and poor defense did them in today.

Jim

[FailedtoOpen]

One could argue that we have impact players, but the scheme hurts them. Case and point is having Sharper for so many years, who made an impact but only really prospered when he went to the Saints.

The Vikings as a whole just play too safe.

[VikingLord]

In the end, I think penalties and poor defense did them in today.

How about a failure of playcalling and/or execution by Ponder?

I am getting so tired of watching this seeming fixation on getting AD going. The Colts were ripe to be victimized in the passing game, and once the Vikes did start throwing it they moved the ball and scored. But up to that point I didn't see any WR's even targeted beyond Harvin. It's like the Vikings don't even bother trying to ply the middle and deep parts of the field early. It's either safe, short throws or runs, and it just doesn't work.

I don't know what is in Frazier's head regarding how offense should be played, but if the Vikes are struggling to move the ball against the Colts defense, I can only imagine what the 49ers are going to do to this team next week if the gameplan remains the same.

And one other thing - release John Carlson. What a waste of a roster spot.

[thatguy]

Cover-2 hurts you when you play a team that throws mid-range passes like that. They perfected it in 2009 against the Cowboys...don't ask me how.

But cover-2 is an awesome system when your D-Line gets enough pressure in the face of the QB. They didn't get enough of it today. Doesn't help when besides Winfield (who tripped on that one play today) is your only solid corner and the others are question marks. Everyone needs to remember, as much as it hurts to lose, that the secondary is ridiculously young overall. I mean, we have a brand new safety and a second-year safety starting for us.

We need Jerome Simpson - plain and simple.

[S197]

That was a tough loss but the Vikings made too many mistakes and left too many plays on the field to deserve a win. They sabotaged themselves with penalties throughout the game, missed blocks, dropped potential first downs, missed potential sacks and INTs, etc.

After watching the first two games of this season I'm already convinced the team's biggest need by FAR is an impact player (or three!) on defense. They have some good players but not enough "finishers" and true difference-makers.

I hope the young players in the secondary improve because right now, they're pretty brutal.

Kudos to Burton for the crazy/lucky TD catch and to Ponder for leading the team back in the 4th quarter two weeks in a row. Harvin's effort today was heroic. I thought the rest of the team was uneven-to-bad. Redding was having his way with the offensive line much of the time.

In the end, I think penalties and poor defense did them in today.

Jim

We're in bad need of a Mike LB that can play in the cover 2 if we're going to insist on keeping this defensive scheme. The Wayne TD before the half is just as inexcusable as the defense letting the offense score late in back to back games.

That being said, the coaching staff needs to find a way to do more with what they have, the personnel excuse is running thin. Indy was a bad team last year, the worst in the league. They come into this game with 4/5 offensive lineman injured or playing out of position. Freeney also out. If they're able to come out and field a team, the Vikings should certainly be able to as well.

[Mothman]

One could argue that we have impact players, but the scheme hurts them.

I'm open to that possibility if someone can do 2 things: identify those players and tell me how the scheme hurts them?

Jim

[VikeMike]

Two things I saw in this game: Ponder held onto the ball too long for most of the game. In the fourth, he seemed far more decisive (and that tipped ball TD didn't hurt )

But the the biggest factor was the defense not making many plays at all, or making costly mistakes (that amzing run of two bad penalties) especially when it counted. I think you nailed it, Moth, a serious lack of playmakers.

[Just Me]

Cover-2 hurts you when you play a team that throws mid-range passes like that. They perfected it in 2009 against the Cowboys...don't ask me how.

But cover-2 is an awesome system when your D-Line gets enough pressure in the face of the QB. They didn't get enough of it today. Doesn't help when besides Winfield (who tripped on that one play today) is your only solid corner and the others are question marks. Everyone needs to remember, as much as it hurts to lose, that the secondary is ridiculously young overall. I mean, we have a brand new safety and a second-year safety starting for us.

We need Jerome Simpson - plain and simple.

He plays defense too??!!!! Wow, the man is a STUD!!! (J/K)

[FailedtoOpen]

I'm open to that possibility if someone can do 2 things: identify those players and tell me how the scheme hurts them?

Jim

I couldn't pin point any player in the secondary that falls under the label of impact player. Greenway, Robison, Raymond, and Harrison actually played decently last week. But no players have shown they can step up and get a much needed int.

The DL makes the biggest impact, everyone else just kind of rides it.

[admvp]

That was a tough loss but the Vikings made too many mistakes and left too many plays on the field to deserve a win. They sabotaged themselves with penalties throughout the game, missed blocks, dropped potential first downs, missed potential sacks and INTs, etc.

After watching the first two games of this season I'm already convinced the team's biggest need by FAR is an impact player (or three!) on defense. They have some good players but not enough "finishers" and true difference-makers.

I hope the young players in the secondary improve because right now, they're pretty brutal.

Kudos to Burton for the crazy/lucky TD catch and to Ponder for leading the team back in the 4th quarter two weeks in a row. Harvin's effort today was heroic. I thought the rest of the team was uneven-to-bad. Redding was having his way with the offensive line much of the time.

In the end, I think penalties and poor defense did them in today.

Jim

Defensive backs. Defensive backs defensive backs defensive backs. That is our BIGGEST need right now. The safeties and corners NEVER make plays. They are never near the ball. Ever. They don't tackle all that well, either. They don't have any ball skills or awareness on the rare occasion they ARE near the ball.

Winfield is scrappy and tough, but old.
Cook... is Cook.
Smith is a rookie.
Robinson is a rookie.
Raymond wouldn't see the field for any other team in the NFL.
Sanford wouldn't either.

Aaaaaaand there you have it. Wow. Those guys really do make up the 2012 Minnesota Vikings secondary. This should be a fun year.

[Mothman]

How about a failure of playcalling and/or execution by Ponder?

I'll stick with penalties and missed opportunities. They had 11 penalties for 105 yards today and many of them came at crucial times, stalling drives or giving the Colts the opportunity to continue drives.

Ponder executed well most of the day. He wasn't great by any means. He missed a few throws (most notably the pass to Harvin on their last drive of the first half), made a bad mistake on the fumble and was fortunate that a pass he threw in the second half (I forget when) wasn't intercepted. Otherwise, for the most part, he was doing what he was asked to do. He completed an efficient 27 of 35 passes and at least a couple were dropped (including a sure first down Rudolph allowed to go through his hands) so I don't think Ponder's execution was a major issue.

I am getting so tired of watching this seeming fixation on getting AD going.

He had 16 carries on the day so I find it hard to believe that was a big problem. I know you have running game issues with this coaching staff but I don't see how you can complain about them establishing Peterson early in this game. He started the game with 4 carries, each for 5+ yards. That's problematic? On the second drive, he had two carries, one for 3 yards and one for 6 yards. On their 3rd possession, Peterson carried for 6 yards and 5 yards. In other words, he had 5+ yard gains on 7 of his first 8 carries. That's nothing but helpful.

The Colts were ripe to be victimized in the passing game, and once the Vikes did start throwing it they moved the ball and scored. But up to that point I didn't see any WR's even targeted beyond Harvin.

They were... but not often. Wasn't the mantra around here last season that Harvin wasn't targeted enough? Weren't people saying after last week's game that they should have involved Harvin a lot more early in the game? They did that today and people still complained, despite the fact that Harvin was effective and they were moving the ball.

And one other thing - release John Carlson. What a waste of a roster spot.

That seems premature to me. Let's see how he looks further into the season. He missed a lot of time this preseason.

[mondry]

Simpson "should" help but who knows, it's still very confusing what happened in the first half passing game. Harvin excelled but everyone else was non existent, and yet in the 2nd half rudolph and jenkins came up with some decent grabs. Rudolph especially seems like you should be able to take advantage of the mismatches he creates yet I don't think he had a target the entire first half.

Ponder did complete all the little crap they asked him to make and when they went a little more down field he was decent in the 2nd half too, so I don't know, it feels like it might be a musgrave issue. I just don't get how you can't get AD, gerhart, rudolph, etc involved more in the passing game, even if all you want to do is short stuff.

27-35 245 yrds and 2 TD's, that's a 77% completion rate so it's hard to say ponder was "bad." Musgrave needs to call a better game and get more creative with players NOT named harvin...

[Crax]

Defensive backs. Defensive backs defensive backs defensive backs. That is our BIGGEST need right now. The safeties and corners NEVER make plays. They are never near the ball. Ever. They don't tackle all that well, either. They don't have any ball skills or awareness on the rare occasion they ARE near the ball.

Winfield is scrappy and tough, but old.
Cook... is Cook.
Smith is a rookie.
Robinson is a rookie.
Raymond wouldn't see the field for any other team in the NFL.
Sanford wouldn't either.

Aaaaaaand there you have it. Wow. Those guys really do make up the 2012 Minnesota Vikings secondary. This should be a fun year.

Aren't you glad we drafted Ellison and Wright in the early rounds? Forget more defensive players, we needed another slot and some sort of FB/TE guy.

[Mothman]

I couldn't pin point any player in the secondary that falls under the label of impact player. Greenway, Robison, Raymond, and Harrison actually played decently last week. But no players have shown they can step up and get a much needed int.

The DL makes the biggest impact, everyone else just kind of rides it.

Exactly! I think they desperately need a real difference-maker at LB. Greenway is good but not great.

As admvp pointed out, they obviously need better play from their secondary too. At least most of that unit is young enough to offer hope. I don't even see a potential impact LB on the roster.

[J. Kapp 11]

I just don't get how you can't get AD, gerhart, rudolph, etc involved more in the passing game, even if all you want to do is short stuff.

I agree. It seems like most of the time these guys catch the ball out of the backfield, good things happen. Peterson's best play of the game was the catch across the middle on the tying TD drive, and Gerhart had a nice screen play.