Chargers @ Vikings Preseason Game Thread

[Mothman]

This was a sad game. The Vikes looked listless and lost. Ponder's pick was really terrible IMO. I read in the strib that the play was a planned short hitch to Percy and that neither defender bothered to cover Jenkins (a decoy nearby on this play). Man... for one, it sucks that Jenkins is so bad that defenders can just disregard him and focus on our lone talent at WR. On the other hand, WTH are you thinking forcing that throw? 2 defenders could have picked it. Just brutal.

It's a play they should take out of the playbook for a while. It's too dangerous and the potential reward is too low. It requires the QB to make a very quick determination and if the defense sees it coming for any reason (QB's eyes, something they saw in film prep, whatever) it's going to get picked. Save that one and if there's a need to return to it at all, do so when Ponder is a little more experienced.

We are so hurting for WR talent. Kalil looked somewhat weak last night--to the point that I started to rethink our taking him ahead of Blackmon. We so desperately need OL help, so Kalil was the right pick IMO. But he's gotta do better than last night. Charlie Johnson was HORRIBLE last night.

Johnson should probably still be viewed as a temporary fix at guard. He's never been more than an average NFL player so if they can get a guard in the first three rounds next spring, it would probably be wise. Kalil should be fine. Like any rookie, he's going to make mistakes but he has the talent to be a good LT.

I suspect WR will be a high priority in next year's draft.

[dead_poet]

Granted Ponder wasn't nearly as sharp as last week, I think the majority of the sacks were coverage sacks. The refrain of receivers not being able to separate has been an annoying tune. One as irritating as the lack of pass rush before JA.

[Mothman]

Granted Ponder wasn't nearly as sharp as last week, I think the majority of the sacks were coverage sacks. The refrain of receivers not being able to separate has been an annoying tune. One as irritating as the lack of pass rush before JA.

Yes, it is... maybe Simpson can help change that.

Ponder said he felt like he needed to do a better job of stepping up in the pocket. He said he was getting back on the top of his drop and kind of just sitting there at times so maybe that contributed to a sack or two as well. It sounds like teh OL had a rough night.

On the positive side: Ponder has a better completion percentage and has thrown fewer INTs than Aaron Rodgers this preseason and the Vikes have the same record as the packers right now: 1-2. My conclusion is that Ponder is now better than Rodgers and the Vikes will be better than GB this year.

[hibbingviking]

one good thing seems like ponder want to pass first, run second.

[S197]

Ponder is still in the dual "wow" mode of last year. The pass to Harvin up the sideline was a heck of a throw especially with a guy in his face. Then he comes back and makes a terrible read on the defense and throws the football to not one, but two defenders jumping that route. That was a pre-snap misread as there's no way he was going anywhere else with that ball once the ball was snapped.

I don't know, it's encouraging to see more touch on his deep ball but very discouraging that he's still throwing the same out/hitch route picks he was all last season. Hopefully we'll see more of the positive "wows" than the negative as the season progresses.

[hibbingviking]

Doesn't Nick Foles have 2 pretty good WRs, competent OL, and a good HC calling the plays? I love his potential

GRUDEN/BARKLEY 2013!!!!!

but seriously... I checked out in the 3rd quarter. I guess the one thing we can be proud of is the fact that our D did an OK job. I know it was all 2nd stringers but didn't the 1st/2nd string combo only allow 9 points? I feel like the presence of AP on the field will help with play action passes for Ponder. Nobody fears Gerhart yet.

i know. russel wilson looks pretty good too.
i like seeing ponder stepping up in the pocket instead of running so much. the o-line doesnt look improved and the wr's dont get much seperation. chad johnson needs a job ?

[Mothman]

Ponder is still in the dual "wow" mode of last year. The pass to Harvin up the sideline was a heck of a throw especially with a guy in his face. Then he comes back and makes a terrible read on the defense and throws the football to not one, but two defenders jumping that route. That was a pre-snap misread as there's no way he was going anywhere else with that ball once the ball was snapped.

I don't know, it's encouraging to see more touch on his deep ball but very discouraging that he's still throwing the same out/hitch route picks he was all last season. Hopefully we'll see more of the positive "wows" than the negative as the season progresses.

Hopefully... on the positive side, other than that pick, I can't recall him even coming close to throwing an INT in the rest of this preseason.

In addition to the deep completion to Harvin, I was impressed with the beautiful deep pass he threw to Percy earlier in the game. He put it right on the money and Harvin just didn't make the catch. That should have been a TD. Overall, I thought Ponder played well but he hasn't even played a full season's worth of games yet so I imagine he'll be in that "wow" mode for a while. At this point, I'm becoming more concerned about the pass protection and the ability of receivers to get open than I am about Ponder himself.

On a different note: despite his fumble near the goal line, I'm really impressed with Matt Asiata. I think he he needs to make this team.

[Demi]

Ok so we can't judge him until he has a *full year* (after hearing about "a full camp" all of last year). And we can't judge him until he's surrounded by top flight talent? AND regardless of ALL of this he needs at least 3 years? Holy cow. Should we give him so many passes per game as well? Even the great ones make a mistake now and then.

He still looks pretty oblivious. Stares down receivers. There are some times I don't think I've seen anyone stare as bad as he has. He takes way too many hits. Has no feel for the pocket.

Positives? His little rainbow deep balls are actually going where they're suppose to every other throw so that's improving. But a guy with all his experience, first round pick, "smart, accurate, athletic". And after a full year in the league he still looks like this? In a preseason game against a team without it's best corner?

He's getting his year (doubt it, no way he stays healthy.) so I guess we might finally be able to judge him after this season? Or does he need another first rounder on offense with him? Or two? Tjoke all over again.

[Texas Vike]

Ok so we can't judge him until he has a *full year* (after hearing about "a full camp" all of last year). And we can't judge him until he's surrounded by top flight talent? AND regardless of ALL of this he needs at least 3 years? Holy cow. Should we give him so many passes per game as well? Even the great ones make a mistake now and then.

He still looks pretty oblivious. Stares down receivers. There are some times I don't think I've seen anyone stare as bad as he has. He takes way too many hits. Has no feel for the pocket.

Positives? His little rainbow deep balls are actually going where they're suppose to every other throw so that's improving. But a guy with all his experience, first round pick, "smart, accurate, athletic". And after a full year in the league he still looks like this? In a preseason game against a team without it's best corner?

He's getting his year (doubt it, no way he stays healthy.) so I guess we might finally be able to judge him after this season? Or does he need another first rounder on offense with him? Or two? Tjoke all over again.

I understand your frustration, but your assessment seems a bit extreme to me. It is annoying when "the voice of the Vikings" is so quick to say that we can't criticize Ponder since he doesn't have Simpson and Carlson. And others take it beyond that always making excuses in his favor. But the fact of the matter is that it takes time to develop as a QB in the NFL, so patience is crucial. Otherwise you jump ship early on a guy that could have matured into a truly elite QB in the league. For me, it's somewhere between those that want to excuse Ponder for X,Y or Z and those that want to crucify him in the preseason of his second year. At this point I need to see steady improvement; it's little indications that he's starting to get it... the long ball gets more accurate, he shows better decision making, he is able to stay confident even when fortune is against him and the team, he takes a leadership role, he can run a two minute drive and score, etc. etc. Our expectations need to be tempered and realistic at the same time that we know the tock is clicking for him.

[Mothman]

Ok so we can't judge him until he has a *full year* (after hearing about "a full camp" all of last year). And we can't judge him until he's surrounded by top flight talent? AND regardless of ALL of this he needs at least 3 years? Holy cow. Should we give him so many passes per game as well? Even the great ones make a mistake now and then.

You've been judging Ponder since the day he was drafted so why bother repeatedly asking when he can be judged? The point is that you're judging an unfinished product, a QB in the process of his development as a professional. We bring up factors like having an entire offseason with the team, having good talent around him, etc. because those factors impact his performance and his development.

[losperros]

At this point, I'm becoming more concerned about the pass protection and the ability of receivers to get open than I am about Ponder himself.

Lots of talk about Ponder here, which is fine, but I don't know, folks. I'm beginning to think we could have the reincarnation of Johnny Unitis as the QB and the catches wouldn't be made. That's not being offered as an excuse for Ponder, Webb, or Sage. I'm just not impressed with the receivers on this team, aside from Harvin, Simpson (who's gone until game 4), and Rudolph. Jenkins has been inconsistent and so has Aromashodu and Burton. I haven't seen that much of Arceneaux or Wright, and we all know what happened to Childs - again.

I agree with you about the pass protection. It's a concern, preseason game or not. OTOH, I thought they showed some push during the run plays.

On a different note: despite his fumble near the goal line, I'm really impressed with Matt Asiata. I think he he needs to make this team.

I thought Asiata looked good, too. But I have to admit that I'm deeply disappointed that Jordan Todman has been banged up during the preseason. He needs reps to show what he can do, because this kid is ultra-explosive. If there is any chance that Adrian Peterson has lost his top gear, even if it's only temporary, having a RB that can take it to the house in the blink of an eye would be good for the roster.

[Mothman]

Lots of talk about Ponder here, which is fine, but I don't know, folks. I'm beginning to think we could have the reincarnation of Johnny Unitis as the QB and the catches wouldn't be made.

LOL! I certainly don't think he would have been able to put together a HOF career with this group.

I agree with you about the pass protection. It's a concern, preseason game or not. OTOH, I thought they showed some push during the run plays.

They did. They were really stuffed on the first 2 possessions but then they seemed to adjust and were picking up nice gains on a lot of their running plays.

I thought Asiata looked good, too. But I have to admit that I'm deeply disappointed that Jordan Todman has been banged up during the preseason. He needs reps to show what he can do, because this kid is ultra-explosive. If there is any chance that Adrian Peterson has lost his top gear, even if it's only temporary, having a RB that can take it to the house in the blink of an eye would be good for the roster.

Yes, it would but I suspect Todman is headed to the practice squad at best.

[Eli]

The running back situation is a bit of a mess, IMO. Asiata may be the best bet for a third back, but then what about a fullback? Or, if Asiata becomes the fullback, what about a third running back? Given the number of fullback candidates that they brought in this year, you'd think they planned on running from two back sets every down. None of these guys has stood out at all and I wouldn't be sad to see nobody but Peterson and Gerhart kept.

[Mothman]

The running back situation is a bit of a mess, IMO. Asiata may be the best bet for a third back, but then what about a fullback? Or, if Asiata becomes the fullback, what about a third running back?

He could essentially be both. If called into duty as an RB, Ellison could play FB.

Given the number of fullback candidates that they brought in this year, you'd think they planned on running from two back sets every down. None of these guys has stood out at all and I wouldn't be sad to see nobody but Peterson and Gerhart kept.

Asiata didn't play in the first game but he's averaged 5.7 ypc on 16 carries over the last two. That stands out to me, especially since he'd have some position flexibility.

[Eli]

He could essentially be both. If called into duty as an RB, Ellison could play FB.

He may play both, but three running backs would be cutting it extremely thin, especially expecting Peterson to have a reduced role early in the season.

I hope they can clam someone, or a couple of someones off of waivers.