Chargers @ Vikings Preseason Game Thread

[Demi]

You've been judging Ponder since the day he was drafted so why bother repeatedly asking when he can be judged?

Because every thread it's being repeated that you can't judge him until ... And it's now a moving target. Gets a full offseason and it's a full season. Gets a full season it's going to be needs weapons. It's starting to sound like the only time you can judge a QB is after he gets a full offseason, a full season, pro bowl talent across the board on offense. And THEN you will have some idea what you have, to seems pretty ludicrous to me...a lot more ludicrous than forming an opinion and judging him based on four years of college ball...and now a full season in the NFL. A full offseason, and through three preseason games.

[saint33]

Because every thread it's being repeated that you can't judge him until ... And it's now a moving target. Gets a full offseason and it's a full season. Gets a full season it's going to be needs weapons. It's starting to sound like the only time you can judge a QB is after he gets a full offseason, a full season, pro bowl talent across the board on offense. And THEN you will have some idea what you have, to seems pretty ludicrous to me...a lot more ludicrous than forming an opinion and judging him based on four years of college ball...and now a full season in the NFL. A full offseason, and through three preseason games.

If Jerry Reese had as little patience as you do, the Giants would probably have 2 less SB trophies in their building. Judging him is fine, actually quite encouraged IMO. Coming to a firm conclusion based off the limited time we have is where I think the problem is.

[Mothman]

Because every thread it's being repeated that you can't judge him until ... And it's now a moving target. Gets a full offseason and it's a full season. Gets a full season it's going to be needs weapons. It's starting to sound like the only time you can judge a QB is after he gets a full offseason, a full season, pro bowl talent across the board on offense. And THEN you will have some idea what you have, to seems pretty ludicrous to me...a lot more ludicrous than forming an opinion and judging him based on four years of college ball...and now a full season in the NFL. A full offseason, and through three preseason games.

The idea is to see how he'll be as a pro, correct? Pro QBs need time to develop and that usually means several seasons, not just one. His progress can obviously be judged at any time but it's not exactly ludicrous to take factors like experience, blocking and the quality of the receivers into consideration when assessing a young QB's performance and potential (and with a QB at Ponder's stage of development, potential is the key word).

Every fan will probably have his own take but realistically, the "target" is probably 3 years into Ponder's career and I doubt it's moving up because I doubt Spielman and the Vikes would bail on him sooner than that unless he's a complete disaster. Thus far, there's really no indication of that so we're likely to be watching Ponder for a while.

[S197]

I don't believe I'm saying this but if I'm Spielman, I'm on the phone with Plaxico right now. It's that bad. Plaxico may not be the ideal receiver on a rebuild team since he'll be done by the time the Vikings are relevant but at the same time you need to give your QB some sort of weapons, otherwise he just gets destroyed out there, physically and mentally. Despite all his off-field issues, the guy is a legit big threat/redzone receiver.

[Eli]

Gotta be careful there. They don't want to upset Percy.

[hibbingviking]

I don't believe I'm saying this but if I'm Spielman, I'm on the phone with Plaxico right now. It's that bad. Plaxico may not be the ideal receiver on a rebuild team since he'll be done by the time the Vikings are relevant but at the same time you need to give your QB some sort of weapons, otherwise he just gets destroyed out there, physically and mentally. Despite all his off-field issues, the guy is a legit big threat/redzone receiver.

vikings need to average 25 points a game or they wont be competitive in the north. dont see that happening. i agree. they need more weapons.

[Texas Vike]

vikings need to average 25 points a game or they wont be competitive in the north. dont see that happening. i agree. they need more weapons.

I am watching the Cowboys vs. the Rams right now. It's sad. I think the Cowgirls 3rd, 4th and 5th WRs are better than all of our WRs apart from Percy. This 5' 8" Cole Beasley from SMU gained 100+ yards last week and is doing well tonight again. Dwayne (?) Harris caught a beautiful long pass earlier. Wow... Harris just scored another as I'm typing!

An embarrassment of riches. This is in addition to Dez, Austin, and oggletree.

[dead_poet]

I don't believe I'm saying this but if I'm Spielman, I'm on the phone with Plaxico right now. It's that bad. Plaxico may not be the ideal receiver on a rebuild team since he'll be done by the time the Vikings are relevant but at the same time you need to give your QB some sort of weapons, otherwise he just gets destroyed out there, physically and mentally. Despite all his off-field issues, the guy is a legit big threat/redzone receiver.

He doesn't have any separation skills any more and is only use in the red zone. I'd rather trade a mid-rounder (5th?) for a younger guy, say James Jones. Won't happen though.

[John_Viveiros]

I'll come in with my usual contrarian view.

First, it's really hard to get excited about playing a bunch of second stringers. I'm not surprised the Vikes came out flat. It's not a good thing, but it it's human nature.

Until the last drive, the Vikes had outgained the Chargers by an almost 2:1 margin. Still, it ended up at about 300 to 200.

Did you all notice how quickly we pulled Toby out? Did we even get through the first quarter before we were on our 3/4/5 string running back? And each of those guys fumbled. At least two were in the red zone. And it's just bad luck to lose every fumble. They are each 50-50 propositions.

Walsh missed a field goal. That would have been enough for the win.

Things I liked: Asiata can run. I hope he can hold onto the ball. The defense was fine. 12 points and 200 yards will usually get you the win. Reisner looks like a real find. Ellison should be a good player. Three tight end offense anyone?

Lastly, the call on Harrison Smith. I just don't think that should be a penalty. A shoulder, delivered at the right time, below the neck and above the waist should be fine. Forearm to the head, sure. Dive at the knees, yes. What Harrison did - highlight material. The way it's called now, it's just a random 15 yards, because that hit is perfectly legal during any other play, as well as two seconds after the catch on a wide receiver.

[losperros]

He doesn't have any separation skills any more and is only use in the red zone. I'd rather trade a mid-rounder (5th?) for a younger guy, say James Jones. Won't happen though.

I agree. I think Plaxico would be a bust at this point.

That said, I'm nourishing the hope that once Jerome Simpson comes back in game #4 things will get better. It looks like the Vikings probably will have to go with a lot of 2TE sets, but that's not the worst thing in the world for this current team. Harvin, Simpson, Rudolph, and another TE could be the best 4 receiver set the Vikes have right now. Yes, I know Harvin really should be in the slot. But at times he can be because Rudolph plays split out quite well.

Anyway, I like what I'm seeing from the TEs. For example, I thought Reisner was impressive the last game. Good play from them and the home run threats of Harvin and Simpson should help. It's not a perfect solution but maybe one the Vikings will have to execute.

[jackal]

I watched the game and was very unimpressed with the vikings

The players came out flat as a pancake. It made me really doubt the coaching
of the Vikings. You have about 35 guys who will be cut in a few weeks and none of them
show up.

I can handle the team loosing if they really try and win .. just sitting lifeless is not
very entertaining to me at all.

[Purple bruise]

You've been judging Ponder since the day he was drafted so why bother repeatedly asking when he can be judged? The point is that you're judging an unfinished product, a QB in the process of his development as a professional. We bring up factors like having an entire offseason with the team, having good talent around him, etc. because those factors impact his performance and his development.

You are spot on. I have not been around this board very long and certainly was not when Ponder was drafted but I followed Ponder through out his college career and watched him very closely this last season and I will again state that I have complete confidence in him and yes you are right in saying that it might take 2 or 3 years for him to fully develop. I won't waste any time detailing a long list of Pro Bowl QBs that took a few years to develope but it is a lengthy list.
I have no idea why the hate from the poster that you mentioned but lets hope that he is pulling for Ponder to succeed. If not there might be something a little wrong with his thinking.

[losperros]

I watched the game and was very unimpressed with the vikings

The players came out flat as a pancake. It made me really doubt the coaching
of the Vikings. You have about 35 guys who will be cut in a few weeks and none of them
show up.

I can handle the team loosing if they really try and win .. just sitting lifeless is not
very entertaining to me at all.

Your point about the cuts is well taken. This game should have been one where the Vikings played with extra motivation. They were in front of their home crowd and (most importantly) they should have been playing for their jobs. I guess that's one reason why I'm concerned about the wide receivers. Aside from Harvin (who we already know is good), the other guys looked mostly mediocre. Some didn't even look that good.

[jackal]

Honestly I think we should keep most of our tight ends because they seem like better football guys

We can go with Harvin Simpson, Burton Wright, and maybe one more

and keep four or five TE's and let play outsize most secondaries

[hibbingviking]

We couldn’t do diddly poo offensively, we couldn’t make a first down, we couldn’t run the ball