View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:00 am



Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
 Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out 
Author Message
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37219
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out
Pelissero writes about some of the position battles:

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Peli ... main081812

This was interesting and a bit amusing:

Quote:
They have to figure out how to replace split end Jerome Simpson, whose hurdle over Bills safety Jairus Byrd on a 33-yard reception may be his last until he returns from a drug suspension in Week 4.

Michael Jenkins' 35-yard reception belied the lack of separation he gained on the play, proving again he's not a vertical matchup threat.


There's more after that but I find it interesting that Pelissero is using a 35 yard completion as an illustration that Michael Jenkins isn't a vertical matchup threat. Tell that to the defenders he beat for 35 yards! ;) I get Pelissero's point: Jenkins doesn't have deep separation speed. He doesn't give the Vikes the dimension Simpson should once he returns from suspension. However, it was a completion and it showed what Jenkins can do for the team: use his size and skills to haul down catches even against tight coverage. There's value in that and if they can't find a WR who can take on the exact role they want Simpson to fill, maybe they can at least get Jenkins or one of the other receivers to fill a different role and still help keep the offense moving.

This is interesting too:

Quote:
Most pressing, they have to figure out if middle linebacker Jasper Brinkley will make the progress coaches hope after missing all of last season following hip surgery.

Frazier said Brinkley played the entire first half because he needed more reps. But he continues to look stiff and tentative at times, and Marvin Mitchell's turns in Erin Henderson's place on the weak side suggest the Vikings at least are giving thought to a backup plan.

Then again, maybe Henderson's starting job isn't completely safe either.

"They're quasi-starters," Frazier said of Henderson and Brinkley, "but we don't want them to feel like, 'I've got the job.' That's not where we are as a defense."


Something tells me LB could be a high priority for the Vikings in next year's draft.

I like the attitude Frazier expresses below:

Quote:
The Vikings' coaches and personnel men will meet on Saturday to discuss the roster, as they do every week. They'll be looking for answers wherever they can find them, even if Arceneaux's catch or Cole's pick-sixes come with qualifiers about the level of competition.

"What it does is it makes you think about putting them in other situations where they can compete as well," Frazier said. "You want to see guys make plays. That's what our business is all about. You can draw up X's and O's all day long, but if you don't have playmakers, you're listening in the wind."


I wonder if that last bit is right. It sounds odd and Tom Powers quoted it this way:

Quote:
"You can draw X's and O's all day," Frazier said. "If you don't have playmakers, you're whistling in the dark."


"Whistling in the dark" is an actual expression (and a great They Might Be Giants song) but I've never heard anybody use the phrase "listening in the wind". Have any of you?


Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:53 pm
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:52 pm
Posts: 7946
Post Re: Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out
Mothman wrote:
Quote:
Michael Jenkins' 35-yard reception belied the lack of separation he gained on the play, proving again he's not a vertical matchup threat.

There's more after that but I find it interesting that Pelissero is using a 35 yard completion as an illustration that Michael Jenkins isn't a vertical matchup threat. Tell that to the defenders he beat for 35 yards!


be·lie (b-l)
tr.v. be·lied, be·ly·ing, be·lies
1. To give a false representation to; misrepresent

Jenkins wasn't the least bit open on the play. He made a nice catch on a ball that probably shouldn't have been thrown. It was a little underthrown and Jenkins was able to come back to it, otherwise it probably would have been defended.

Quote:
Quote:
"listening in the wind"

Quote:
"whistling in the dark"

"Whistling in the dark" is an actual expression (and a great They Might Be Giants song) but I've never heard anybody use the phrase "listening in the wind". Have any of you?

Whistling in the wind. An exercise in futility. Don't know if that's what he said, but probably what he intended to say.


Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:06 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37219
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out
Eli wrote:
be·lie (b-l)
tr.v. be·lied, be·ly·ing, be·lies
1. To give a false representation to; misrepresent

Jenkins wasn't the least bit open on the play. He made a nice catch on a ball that probably shouldn't have been thrown. It was a little underthrown and Jenkins was able to come back to it, otherwise it probably would have been defended.


I saw the play and I understand the meaning of the word belie as well. :) I was just amused that Pelissero was using a completion to make his point. Jenkins wasn't open but as you said, he made a nice catch and it's not the first time he's made a catch in coverage for the Vikes, or the first time he's caught a long pass for a substantial gain. In that sense, he should be considered at least a minor vertical matchup threat, especially since "underthrown" passes to the back shoulder have become a popular strategy in the NFL. He's obviously not the vertical threat a speedier WR would be (no defense is going to worry about his speed) but clearly, a 6' 4" receiver who can haul in a 35 yard pass in tight coverage should be considered some kind of a threat by the defense. After all, one of the reasons teams like those tall WRs so much is because they can make catches in coverage.

Quote:
Whistling in the wind. An exercise in futility. Don't know if that's what he said, but probably what he intended to say.


Thanks.


Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:44 pm
Profile
Commissioner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Posts: 10040
Location: Burbank, California
Post Re: Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out
Eli wrote:
Jenkins wasn't the least bit open on the play. He made a nice catch on a ball that probably shouldn't have been thrown. It was a little underthrown and Jenkins was able to come back to it, otherwise it probably would have been defended.



I would have agreed with that assessment, but when I watched the NFL Network recast of the game, Pete Bercich said that Ponder made the play by deliberately under-throwing the ball so that Jenkins could use his height and leaping abilities. After looking at the play once more, I agree. There was no separation, but Ponder still utilized what advantage Jenkins did have. I now think the throw was a good one.

That said, I also believe that Jenkins possibly played a more inspired game this time around. He just took a pay cut and has to know that his repeated lack of separation is a problem. I think he's fighting for the ball because he's also fighting to keep his job.


Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:56 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37219
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out
losperros wrote:
I would have agreed with that assessment, but when I watched the NFL Network recast of the game, Pete Bercich said that Ponder made the play by deliberately under-throwing the ball so that Jenkins could use his height and leaping abilities. After looking at the play once more, I agree. There was no separation, but Ponder still utilized what advantage Jenkins did have. I now think the throw was a good one.

I do too and as I said, it's an increasingly popular approach. I think I saw Aaron Rodgers make that downfield throw to the receiver's back shoulder at least once in every Packers game I watched last year. he and his WRs are so good at it that it's practically unstoppable. :(

Quote:
That said, I also believe that Jenkins possibly played a more inspired game this time around. He just took a pay cut and has to know that his repeated lack of separation is a problem. I think he's fighting for the ball because he's also fighting to keep his job.


Agreed and that catch should help him make a case, although it shouldn't end the position battle.


Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:05 pm
Profile
Hall of Famer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:52 pm
Posts: 7946
Post Re: Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out
losperros wrote:
Eli wrote:
Jenkins wasn't the least bit open on the play. He made a nice catch on a ball that probably shouldn't have been thrown. It was a little underthrown and Jenkins was able to come back to it, otherwise it probably would have been defended.


I would have agreed with that assessment, but when I watched the NFL Network recast of the game, Pete Bercich said that Ponder made the play by deliberately under-throwing the ball so that Jenkins could use his height and leaping abilities. After looking at the play once more, I agree. There was no separation, but Ponder still utilized what advantage Jenkins did have. I now think the throw was a good one.


I think that's putting a positive spin on what may have been a poor decision on Ponder's part, just because the play was successful. If not for the efforts of Jenkins, it might have been an INT. I like Jenkins and think that with a decent QB he has the potential to be a great possession receiver, but if the Vikings are counting on him to consistently make plays like that one while he's blanketed, they're going to regret it.


Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:14 pm
Profile
Defensive Tackle
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 11:48 am
Posts: 37219
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Re: Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out
Eli wrote:
I think that's putting a positive spin on what may have been a poor decision on Ponder's part, just because the play was successful.


I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder. Only Ponder knows where he actually intended to place that pass.

Quote:
If not for the efforts of Jenkins, it might have been an INT. I like Jenkins and think that with a decent QB he has the potential to be a great possession receiver, but if the Vikings are counting on him to consistently make plays like that one while he's blanketed, they're going to regret it.


I doubt they're counting on him to make them consistently but they may take a shot once in a while, especially while Simpson is out. Otherwise, I'm guessing they'll use Jenkins the way they did last year, primarily as a possession receiver.


Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:42 pm
Profile
Commissioner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:47 am
Posts: 10040
Location: Burbank, California
Post Re: Vikings Lineup Sorting Itself Out
Eli wrote:
losperros wrote:
Eli wrote:
Jenkins wasn't the least bit open on the play. He made a nice catch on a ball that probably shouldn't have been thrown. It was a little underthrown and Jenkins was able to come back to it, otherwise it probably would have been defended.


I would have agreed with that assessment, but when I watched the NFL Network recast of the game, Pete Bercich said that Ponder made the play by deliberately under-throwing the ball so that Jenkins could use his height and leaping abilities. After looking at the play once more, I agree. There was no separation, but Ponder still utilized what advantage Jenkins did have. I now think the throw was a good one.


I think that's putting a positive spin on what may have been a poor decision on Ponder's part, just because the play was successful. If not for the efforts of Jenkins, it might have been an INT. I like Jenkins and think that with a decent QB he has the potential to be a great possession receiver, but if the Vikings are counting on him to consistently make plays like that one while he's blanketed, they're going to regret it.


No, I don't think it's a positive spin. Looking at the play it appears as if the best place for the ball to go was where Ponder put it. If we didn't see that kind of pass so often with other teams, then maybe I'd think it was a poor pass and a great catch. But we do see it. If other teams can do it, why not the Vikings?


Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:19 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 8 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware.