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 Can the Vikings find success quickly? 
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Post Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Nice article/analysis:

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@PFF: The Vikings have fallen far in a short time. @PFF_Khaled looks at whether 2012 is the start of their rebound > http://t.co/4Lr2ZE0U

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Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:46 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Thanks (again) for the link. It was a fair analysis, although it ahd a little of the usual PFF weirdness. :)

Anyway, I think they made some good points, particularly about Ponder and the d-line. Their comments about the number of snaps Allen and Williams have had reveals just why Frazier wants to use a little more of a rotation this season.

It seems like every time I read or hear about the NFC North and the Vikings chances this season there is talk about the competition, which could definitely be formidable. However, we all know that every season brings surprises and injuries so who knows how it will all play out? The media seems to love the Lions but they were a .500 team in the second half of last season with a 1-3 record in the division over that stretch (GB beat them twice) and their defense gave up 45 points to GB in game 16 and 45 to new orleans a week later in the playoffs. They have some work to do and could easily take a step back, especially when you consider that Stafford has only played more than 10 games in a season once in his young career.

The Bears are hard to predict. I think they've improved their roster but Urlacher just had his knee scoped and reports are that he may have to nurse that thing all season, limiting practices, etc. In the past, when he's been less than 100% or when they've been without him, the Bears defense has been considerably less effective. the Bears were on a roll last season before Cutler went down but they only won 1 game after that (against the Vikes. They added Jason Campbell as a backup but it's pretty clear that their hopes of being much more than a .500 team rest firmly on Cutler's shoulders.

GB is a clear favorite to win the division and only an injury to Rodgers could probably be derail them.

My point is that the Vikes might actually be able to compete in this division, perhaps not for first place but they aren't slam dunk for last, just the favorites. ;) They'll need one of those season where a LOT of things go right for them and plenty goes wrong for their division rivals but that sort of things happens in the NFL and young teams can be unpredictable.


Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:16 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
I pretty much agree with Moth that the NFC North might be more difficult to predict than a lot of the sports media thinks. Personally, I see GB as being a well deserved favorite. But beyond that, I think there are serious question marks for the other teams. Of course, intangibles such as injuries will also play a big part.

On another note, I have no idea how much Ponder can improve but I'll go along with the article in saying the weaponry around him has gotten a bit better. Too bad the WR corps is still uncertain. I think Percy Harvin is a stud - period. Aside from him, though, things get foggy. Maybe Jenkins steps up, maybe not. I'm still hoping that Jerome Simpson can become a playmaker for the Vikings, though admittedly he can be inconsistent. The rest of the guys? I don't know. Thankfully, Rudolph is there at TE and I sure hope he remains healthy.


Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:51 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
losperros wrote:
I pretty much agree with Moth that the NFC North might be more difficult to predict than a lot of the sports media thinks. Personally, I see GB as being a well deserved favorite. But beyond that, I think there are serious question marks for the other teams. Of course, intangibles such as injuries will also play a big part.

On another note, I have no idea how much Ponder can improve but I'll go along with the article in saying the weaponry around him has gotten a bit better. Too bad the WR corps is still uncertain. I think Percy Harvin is a stud - period. Aside from him, though, things get foggy. Maybe Jenkins steps up, maybe not. I'm still hoping that Jerome Simpson can become a playmaker for the Vikings, though admittedly he can be inconsistent. The rest of the guys? I don't know. Thankfully, Rudolph is there at TE and I sure hope he remains healthy.


I hope so too and I hope Carlson can get healthy and make a genuine impact as a receiver. The WR corps is still pretty questionable but if those two TEs both step up, that could really help make up for it. the Vikes need someone else to emerge as a serious threat in the passing game and if that happens, it should take pressure off Harvin and open him up a little more. If the team gets lucky and Simpson, Rudolph and Carlson all step up, the Vikes could really have something.

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Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:59 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
I believe each of you are correct with your assessment and it is a fact that injuries (or lack there of) can and will ultimately be a factor in the outcome of the divisional race but lets be honest. Without taking into account the possible variables, and based soley on the talent level of each team.....this year will be just like last year and without significant injuries to the other teams we will not win a single game against any of our divisional foes.


Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:04 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
radar55 wrote:
this year will be just like last year and without significant injuries to the other teams we will not win a single game against any of our divisional foes.


I have a hard time believing this. It's not as if the Vikings are completely devoid of talent on both sides of the ball circa Lions of several years ago. They should at the very least give at least the Lions and Bears a good game, particularly at home.

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Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:16 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
radar55 wrote:
I believe each of you are correct with your assessment and it is a fact that injuries (or lack there of) can and will ultimately be a factor in the outcome of the divisional race but lets be honest. Without taking into account the possible variables, and based soley on the talent level of each team.....this year will be just like last year and without significant injuries to the other teams we will not win a single game against any of our divisional foes.


That's not necessarily true. It's not as if those 3 teams dominated the Vikes every time they met last year. There were close games against all 3 teams. The Lions, in particular, don't seem unbeatable to me at all. That was their first winning season in 11 years and they didn't finish strong. Can they sustain success or will they fall back a bit?

I'll be surprised if the Vikes go 0-6 in the NFC North this year.


Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:45 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Mothman wrote:
radar55 wrote:
I believe each of you are correct with your assessment and it is a fact that injuries (or lack there of) can and will ultimately be a factor in the outcome of the divisional race but lets be honest. Without taking into account the possible variables, and based soley on the talent level of each team.....this year will be just like last year and without significant injuries to the other teams we will not win a single game against any of our divisional foes.


That's not necessarily true. It's not as if those 3 teams dominated the Vikes every time they met last year. There were close games against all 3 teams. The Lions, in particular, don't seem unbeatable to me at all. That was their first winning season in 11 years and they didn't finish strong. Can they sustain success or will they fall back a bit?

I'll be surprised if the Vikes go 0-6 in the NFC North this year.


Dont get me wrong, I hope we go 6-0 in the division. I just dont believe the O line, the secondary or the offensive scheme will start to create significant results until next year. The process of rebuilding takes time and I am more of a realist than an optomist (sp?).


Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:28 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
radar55 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
radar55 wrote:
I believe each of you are correct with your assessment and it is a fact that injuries (or lack there of) can and will ultimately be a factor in the outcome of the divisional race but lets be honest. Without taking into account the possible variables, and based soley on the talent level of each team.....this year will be just like last year and without significant injuries to the other teams we will not win a single game against any of our divisional foes.


That's not necessarily true. It's not as if those 3 teams dominated the Vikes every time they met last year. There were close games against all 3 teams. The Lions, in particular, don't seem unbeatable to me at all. That was their first winning season in 11 years and they didn't finish strong. Can they sustain success or will they fall back a bit?

I'll be surprised if the Vikes go 0-6 in the NFC North this year.


Dont get me wrong, I hope we go 6-0 in the division. I just dont believe the O line, the secondary or the offensive scheme will start to create significant results until next year. The process of rebuilding takes time and I am more of a realist than an optomist (sp?).


It's Optimist. You were close. You just replaced an i with an o. :)

I agree that it can take time for changes to take hold and yield significant results. My point was just that as bad as they were, the Vikes played close games against all 3 divisional opponents last season so I think there's a realistic chance they could win at least one divisional game this year. Perhaps even more...


Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:38 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
radar55 wrote:
Dont get me wrong, I hope we go 6-0 in the division. I just dont believe the O line, the secondary or the offensive scheme will start to create significant results until next year. The process of rebuilding takes time and I am more of a realist than an optomist (sp?).



Your point is well taken. And yes, the Vikings will need more time to rebuild. My only rebuttal is that I believe the Lions and Bears have their own set of question marks as well. Are they currently better teams than the Vikings? That could be true. But are they teams that one can assume will be in contention for a division title? I don't think I'd want to guarantee that. Not at this point, anyway. Personally, I find that view to be more realistic than optimistic or negative.


Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:49 pm
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Wow. I watched a little of the Packers second preseason game tonight against the Browns. The Packers don't have a backup QB at all. They have Graham Harrell, a 27 year old who went undrafted, was signed and cut by a CFL team, and has been on the Packers' practice squad for the past two years. After him, they have B. J. Coleman, a 7th round rookie taken with the 243rd pick. Their defense absolutely stinks. A major injury to Aaron Rodgers and they're instantly the worst team in the division.


Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Eli wrote:
Wow. I watched a little of the Packers second preseason game tonight against the Browns. The Packers don't have a backup QB at all. They have Graham Harrell, a 27 year old who went undrafted, was signed and cut by a CFL team, and has been on the Packers' practice squad for the past two years. After him, they have B. J. Coleman, a 7th round rookie taken with the 243rd pick. Their defense absolutely stinks. A major injury to Aaron Rodgers and they're instantly the worst team in the division.
What the Packers have is a QB that can throw the ball and good WR corp. Other than that, they are working on the DBs, the OL, the LBs and the RB. They have just as many problems as the Vikings only they had a winning season last year.

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Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:01 pm
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Raptorman wrote:
Eli wrote:
Wow. I watched a little of the Packers second preseason game tonight against the Browns. The Packers don't have a backup QB at all. They have Graham Harrell, a 27 year old who went undrafted, was signed and cut by a CFL team, and has been on the Packers' practice squad for the past two years. After him, they have B. J. Coleman, a 7th round rookie taken with the 243rd pick. Their defense absolutely stinks. A major injury to Aaron Rodgers and they're instantly the worst team in the division.
What the Packers have is a QB that can throw the ball and good WR corp. Other than that, they are working on the DBs, the OL, the LBs and the RB. They have just as many problems as the Vikings only they had a winning season last year.


Aaron Rodgers compensates for a lot of the Pack's problems. He's that good.

But Eli is right. If Rodgers gets hurt, the Pack is in trouble.


Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:19 pm
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
:lol: Jake Reed seems to think so...

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Can somebody say playoffs???? Skol!!!!

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Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:52 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Raptorman wrote:
Eli wrote:
Other than that, they are working on the DBs, the OL, the LBs and the RB.


I agree on everything but OL. What was once a glaring weakness has quietly become a position of strength fairly quickly. They probably have a top-15 (or top-10) o-line.

It's striking how much the Packers and Lions have in common this season: great QBs, a questionable running game and defense.

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Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:25 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
dead_poet wrote:
Raptorman wrote:
Eli wrote:
Other than that, they are working on the DBs, the OL, the LBs and the RB.


I agree on everything but OL. What was once a glaring weakness has quietly become a position of strength fairly quickly. They probably have a top-15 (or top-10) o-line.



I agree. Sullivan is coming off a real nice year. It looks as though we've killed two birds with one stone with the Kalil pick allowing us to slide Johnson to the LG spot. Loadholt finished last season on a high note. (I believe he only allowed the QB to get hit once in his last 10 games).

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Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:38 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Juice wrote:
I agree. Sullivan is coming off a real nice year. It looks as though we've killed two birds with one stone with the Kalil pick allowing us to slide Johnson to the LG spot. Loadholt finished last season on a high note. (I believe he only allowed the QB to get hit once in his last 10 games).


I was actually referencing the Packers' line. :)

But our own should be much improved. I think it could be one of strength in a couple of years, after they have a chance to gel a bit. It may be rough at first. My biggest concern is Loadholt in the passing game. I'm also hoping Fusco can hold his own and at least be serviceable.

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Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:10 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
dead_poet wrote:
Juice wrote:
I agree. Sullivan is coming off a real nice year. It looks as though we've killed two birds with one stone with the Kalil pick allowing us to slide Johnson to the LG spot. Loadholt finished last season on a high note. (I believe he only allowed the QB to get hit once in his last 10 games).


I was actually referencing the Packers' line. :)

But our own should be much improved. I think it could be one of strength in a couple of years, after they have a chance to gel a bit. It may be rough at first. My biggest concern is Loadholt in the passing game. I'm also hoping Fusco can hold his own and at least be serviceable.


:oops: Oh my. I'm an idiot, how embarrassing. I was about to put in that I didn't think we were quite at that range yet, too. Little late for that. :lol:

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Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:39 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
80 PurplePride 84 wrote:
You'll probably laugh but I could see the Pack trading for/signing T-Jack after he officially loses his job to Flynn.



Maybe not that far-fetched. T-Jack has plenty of NFL experience, mobility, and he knows the division.

Obviously T-Jack isn't a solid QB, but with Aaron Rodgers around, all TJ has to be is a capable backup.


Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:58 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
dead_poet wrote:
Raptorman wrote:
Eli wrote:
Other than that, they are working on the DBs, the OL, the LBs and the RB.


I agree on everything but OL. What was once a glaring weakness has quietly become a position of strength fairly quickly. They probably have a top-15 (or top-10) o-line.

It's striking how much the Packers and Lions have in common this season: great QBs, a questionable running game and defense.


Not something the Purple should relie on, but of the 3 team's QBs, I believe Stafford and Cutler both spent time hurt last year. The bears completely fell apart without Cutler, which I think says something about the state of their defense. Ditto with the Lions. The Packers are IMO, the NFC version of the Peyton Manning Colts. The division is theirs if Rogers stays healthy and consistent. If he plays like he did against the Giants in the playoffs then the division is wide open between the 3 of them.

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Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:19 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
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They have just as many problems as the Vikings only they had a winning season last year.


They have a competent quarterback, front office, and coach. And that's all you need to consistently compete. The Vikings have none of them. And that's why they won 15 games and we won 3.

Not many teams (any?) would be able to lose their starting QB and still compete for a wild card spot much less remain anywhere near what they were.

And I really doubt the Packers are stupid enough to want anything to do with TJoke. The guy has shown on two separate teams that he's not a very good quarterback. And Graham Harrell is just as likely to be a "capable" backup as Jackson is.


Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:19 pm
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Is anybody really defending T-Joke? Really? I'm suprised any team has any interest in him at all. Hell any 2nd string RB could play QB better than than him


Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Eli wrote:
A major injury to Aaron Rodgers and they're instantly the worst team in the division.


Any chance they play the Saints early in their schedule? :wink:

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Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:05 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Laserman wrote:
Is anybody really defending T-Joke? Really? I'm suprised any team has any interest in him at all. Hell any 2nd string RB could play QB better than than him


Not even close. Look, we all know he's not a starter, but he's a hell of a lot better than "any 2nd string RB". Don't get clouded by the fact that Chili was forcing him into a starter's role when it wasn't there.


Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:29 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Jackson could end up in Green Bay. Seriously. ANYTHING is better than Graham Harrell.

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Seahawks attempts to trade Tarvaris Jackson to intensify this week

Green Bay is expected to seek a better back-up option, and Jackson fits that bill (Seattle general manager John Schneider spent much of career with the Packers and has strong ties there). Other GMs believe Cleveland back-up Colt McCoy could be a possible fit for the Packers as well, with one suggesting Miami's Matt Moore as a possibility for Arizona depending on how the Dolphins quarterback situation shapes up and whether or not David Garrard can return quickly from his knee scope.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-o ... l/19826262


Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:17 am
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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
glg wrote:
Laserman wrote:
Is anybody really defending T-Joke? Really? I'm suprised any team has any interest in him at all. Hell any 2nd string RB could play QB better than than him


Not even close. Look, we all know he's not a starter, but he's a hell of a lot better than "any 2nd string RB". Don't get clouded by the fact that Chili was forcing him into a starter's role when it wasn't there.


+1 - I always wanted Jackson to leave because I had this fear that he was always going to be named the starter at some point in the season (while Childress was here) and he just wasn't that good. I always liked his work ethic and attitude, and wouldn't even have a problem if he returned as long as it was clearly understood he was backup material only. I don't see that happening, but we could do alot worse in the backup QB department than Jackson...

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Post Re: Can the Vikings find success quickly?
Just Me wrote:
glg wrote:
Laserman wrote:
Is anybody really defending T-Joke? Really? I'm suprised any team has any interest in him at all. Hell any 2nd string RB could play QB better than than him


Not even close. Look, we all know he's not a starter, but he's a hell of a lot better than "any 2nd string RB". Don't get clouded by the fact that Chili was forcing him into a starter's role when it wasn't there.


+1 - I always wanted Jackson to leave because I had this fear that he was always going to be named the starter at some point in the season (while Childress was here) and he just wasn't that good. I always liked his work ethic and attitude, and wouldn't even have a problem if he returned as long as it was clearly understood he was backup material only. I don't see that happening, but we could do alot worse in the backup QB department than Jackson...


That's true but I think they can do better too, not that they're necessarily doing it now. ;) I suppose it depends on how the team wants to approach the position and who is available. TJ is good enough to serve as a backup but ideally, I think it's better to have a young backup with more upside than that, someone who could eventually become a legitimate NFL starter. I'm thinking of QBs like Matt Hasselbeck, Matt Schaub or Matt Cassel. In other words, it should be someone named Matt!

Seriously, the 3 QBs I mentioned above all spent time as young backups but were able to become legitimate NFL starters. Super Bowl-winning QBs like Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner and Tom Brady all began their careers as backups too. I understand that a team can't always get backups like that but at this point, I see Jackson more like a younger Rosenfels, a veteran who can give you something off the bench but who no longer has an upside as a legitimate NFL starter. Rosenfels is obviously quite a bit older and I'm not comparing their style of play, just saying they're veterans who have probably shown the best they have to offer.

All of the above is why I think the Vikes need to be prepared to cut bait with Webb or demote him to 3rd on the depth chart if he doesn't make great strides forward this year. Thus far, as a QB, he's a phenomenal runner. They need a backup with more upside as a passer and if Webb can't demonstrate that, they need to add a young player who does.


Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:30 am
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