Confidence in Christian Part II

[J. Kapp 11]

However, I can also see where everyone else is coming from, it is exciting to see Ponder show he can have that kind of game.

It's also exciting to see him lead the team to a score very late in the fourth quarter while trailing.

Considering it's the first time he's done that, I'd call that in itself a sign of improvement. Does anybody believe he could have done that last year?

[Demi]

Does anybody believe he could have done that last year?

No, because Shortbad misses the 55 yard field goal.

[Just Me]

No, because Shortbad misses the 55 yard field goal.

LOL! (I like the moniker "Shortwell" better as I think it fits him more accurately. - The guy could make field goals, just not very long ones)

[Mothman]

LOL! (I like the moniker "Shortwell" better as I think it fits him more accurately. - The guy could make field goals, just not very long ones)

Ah, how quickly we forget...

Longwell didn't have a strong leg for kickoffs but he was able to hit long FGs. Last year he hit two 49 yard FGs, a 52 yard FG and a 53 yard FG. He made field goals 48 yards or longer every year he was with the Vikings and in 4 of 6 years he hit attempts from 50+. His longest was a 55 yard FG in 2007.

[Just Me]

Ah, how quickly we forget...

Longwell didn't have a strong leg for kickoffs but he was able to hit long FGs. Last year he hit two 49 yard FGs, a 52 yard FG and a 53 yard FG. He made field goals 48 yards or longer every year he was with the Vikings and in 4 of 6 years he hit attempts from 50+. His longest was a 55 yard FG in 2007.

You are right. I stand corrected.

However, his overall average for FG accuracy took a severe nosedive in 2011. He went from 94.4% accuracy in 2010, to 78.6% accuracy inn 2011 (his lowest performance since leaving the Packers, and third lowest of his career. He was 28th in the league last year for conversion %) Maybe Demi's moniker was right after all (short - referring to kickoff distance, and bad - referrring to overall accuracy )

[Mothman]

You are right. I stand corrected.

However, his overall average for FG accuracy took a severe nosedive in 2011. He went from 94.4% accuracy in 2010, to 78.6% accuracy inn 2011 (his lowest performance since leaving the Packers, and third lowest of his career. He was 28th in the league last year for conversion %) Maybe Demi's moniker was right after all (short - referring to kickoff distance, and bad - referrring to overall accuracy )

He was clearly declining as a kicker so the Vikings made the right move by drafting Walsh.

[The Breeze]

I like Demi's point on the FG and Walsh. I know this thread is about Ponder, but the result of last weeks game (like most games) clearly had to do with just more than him. Everyone knows this.

The defense was as equally uninspiring as Ponder's first half performance and had more to do with J-Ville hanging around than anything Ponder and the offense did not do IMO.

The offensive line looked great considering it was the first game of the season and where they had been up to this point.

The running game was effective and Walsh was outstanding. All of this gives me more confidence in Ponder going forward because it it takes much of the pressure off him to win games and allows him to manage games more. Throw in the fact that he had the great second half topped with those final two drives and it shows that he does have the ability to win games in crunch time.

My confidence in him is linked to his own confidence and how well they hold a pocket for him. I don't consider him mentally fragile...but he had a rough season last year physically. Hard to be comfortable and not press when things go bad up front.

[dead_poet]

Just something to chew on after Sunday's game left a bitter taste in our mouths. By the numbers. Interpret as you will.

Through two weeks Christian Ponder leads the entire NFL in passing accuracy with a sterling 75.8% complete (Manning/Ryan yet to play Monday night). Yes, many of his throws are short, high-percentage shots. However he's executing those plays. Play calling (outside of rare audibles) is out of his control. It's not as if he's Checkdown Charlie. I recall very few checkdown passes (which isn't necessarily a good thing as he has been guilty of attempting to avoid a sack by tucking and running — and getting tackled/sacked — when a checkdown is probably a better option to net positive yardage).

Christian Ponder has the 7th highest overall QBR through two weeks (it could be higher depending on how Manning/Ryan fare tonight).

His 0 interceptions obviously are tied for the league lead.

Unless I'm reading the NFL.com stats incorrectly, Ponder's passing first down percentage of 45.2% is 4th in the NFL (I believe this refers to the amount of time a QB throws on first down as opposed to his first down completion percentage). To me, this represents a schematic shift in philosophy from Childress/Bevell era where a handoff to AD on first down was a near certainty. Those looking for more varied play calling on early downs have so far gotten their wish. Note: the Vikings are slightly better than average in rush attempts/game (27.5, 14th) and YPC (4.0, 12th).

Ponder is averaging 31 attempts/game which is good for 18th in the league. I suspect this number may rise with the return of Simpson. Regardless, it's not as if the Vikings are leaning heavily with the run. They are a balanced offense, which is a good thing.

[Mothman]

Just something to chew on after Sunday's game left a bitter taste in our mouths. By the numbers. Interpret as you will.

Through two weeks Christian Ponder leads the entire NFL in passing accuracy with a sterling 75.8% complete (Manning/Ryan yet to play Monday night). Yes, many of his throws are short, high-percentage shots. However he's executing those plays. Play calling (outside of rare audibles) is out of his control. It's not as if he's Checkdown Charlie. I recall very few checkdown passes (which isn't necessarily a good thing as he has been guilty of attempting to avoid a sack by tucking and running — and getting tackled/sacked — when a checkdown is probably a better option to net positive yardage).

If it's available, a checkdown is usually the better option.

There's been quite a bit of talk this season about Ponder tucking and running when he shouldn't and it's really tempting me to upgrade to the NFL Game Pass package with coach's film of each play because I'd like to see just what Ponder has in front of him on a lot of those plays. I'd love to get a better idea of his actual options in those situations.

Unless I'm reading the NFL.com stats incorrectly, Ponder's passing first down percentage of 45.2% is 4th in the NFL (I believe this refers to the amount of time a QB throws on first down as opposed to his first down completion percentage).

I almost certain you're right about that.

To me, this represents a schematic shift in philosophy from Childress/Bevell era where a handoff to AD on first down was a near certainty. Those looking for more varied play calling on early downs have so far gotten their wish. Note: the Vikings are slightly better than average in rush attempts/game (27.5, 14th) and YPC (4.0, 12th).

Ponder is averaging 31 attempts/game which is good for 18th in the league. I suspect this number may rise with the return of Simpson. Regardless, it's not as if the Vikings are leaning heavily with the run. They are a balanced offense, which is a good thing.

I agree. Thanks for posting that info!

[dead_poet]

I guess this is a silver lining. And the entirety of the game made me forget the efficiency of those first few drives. But maybe those drives is what frustrates me. They marched on down, called $hiddy plays and failed to close the deal.

The other side of the coin is that the Vikings offense is driving, producing positive yards and getting points. The downside is that, with our (lack of?) defense, they are settling for field goals when they absolutely need touchdowns. The stats don't lie. The Vikings aren't tops in the NFL in yards, but they also aren't at the bottom. They currently rank 17th, about where they were thought to be at the beginning of the season (especially without Simpson). Was there anybody thinking this offense was going to have a realistic chance of being in the top-10?

As soon as the Colts figured things out (which didn't take long) the Vikings offense failed to adjust until the desperation plays against the prevent defense and ultimately the individual heroics of Percy Harvin.

The Vikings have had a decent amount of sustained drives this season already. They aren't lighting it up (especially not in the first half) but they aren't getting blown away in time of possession (currently 20th) and going three-and-out routinely.

I just know if the Vikings organization thinks we can play every game like that one and consider that a "close game" and be pleased with Ponder's performance because his on-paper stats are good, then we're never going to win another game this season.

I don't think the alternative is realistic; the alternative being the VIkings come out of the gate firing on all cylinders and conjuring up spirits of '99. This isn't New England, Green Bay or New Orleans, as desperately as many of us wish they were. IMO the best chance they have at winning games is to control the ToP, limit turnovers, put up points and (God willing) win the turnover battle. They simply aren't built on either side of the ball to blow teams out. And expecting this remarkably young defense (especially on the back end) to field a top-10 unit after an abysmal year with no substantial free agent signings and a couple of rookies is setting yourself up for disappointment, anger and alcoholism. If the Vikings are going to win games this season, accept the fact that they are probably aren't going to be more than by 7 points.

Did anyone see Frazier's postgame press conference? Did he act like it was an evenly fought contest or was there urgency that they have a lot of improvement to make?

What did you realistically expect him to say?

"Ohmygod! We suck! We have to do something quick or else we're all doomed! Doomed I tell you!"

Any variation of this isn't in his nature (or the nature of more than 80% of NFL head coaches that have ever taken the field...IMO). Watch other losing head coaches' press conferences and you won't find them panicing or acting like there's any urgency. That never something you want your leader/head coach to exhibit. You express confidence in your team, spout cliches, mention how you'll have to "clean some things up for next week" and move on.

If Frazier is disappointed or going to chew anyone out, he's going to do it and address the issue privately.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Webb could make those short passes to PH just as easily as Ponder. Andmaybe avoid the fumbles and sacks. And Webb really isnt a QB (or WR for that matter). Any QB could have Ponders numbers. Some might even be able to read a D and pass the ball to an open WR!. Yeah i know, our WRs and TEs are NEVER open, its not Ponders fault.

[dead_poet]

Yeah i know, our WRs and TEs are NEVER open, its not Ponders fault.

Nobody's saying Ponder is a hero that's been victimized. He's said himself he needs to play better and he does. But do you really think it's easy for the guy with his list of "options"?

Devin Aromashodu: 7th round draft pick. He's been cut by the: Indianapolis Colts, Houston Texans, Washington Redskins and Chicago Bears. He's probably a #4 receiver at best.

Stephen Burton: 2011 7th round pick that barely made the team the last two years. Burton isn't good and if all goes according to (my) plan, he's not on the roster in a year or two. He's only here because our other options are so abysmal.

Michael Jenkins: 30 years old coming off knee injury. Ran a molasses 4.6 coming out of college. He's not a threat to separate vertically (or any other way). Whatever he had then has been gone for awhile. He's got good hands, though. At best he's a #3 and solid third-down option. I've never watched him run a route where he gets even a step on a defender.

Jarius Wright (injured, out)
Greg Childs (injured, out)
Jerome Simpson (suspended)

John Carlson: I haven't seen enough of Carlson to know what his issue is. I'm thinking it's still the injury and he's working back into game shape. But it's possible he's been open and Ponder either hasn't looked to him or flat-out missed him. Historically, Carlson has been a decent receiving option.
Kyle Rudolph: He's been getting targeted (#2 in targets behind Harvin). I'm a little surprised he hasn't been targeted more, to be honest.

Whatever your opinion of Ponder, you can't say these first two games he's had a lot/much of anything to work with. If he had an A.J. Green and wish misfiring or not looking to him or whatever I'd agree that he has talent but isn't able to capitalize. That's simply not the case. He's throwing it to the only guy that can get open consistently on plays that are designed to go to that guy.

The statement that the VIkings' receivers (especially wide receivers) outside of Harvin not getting open is certainly valid. I'm sure he could take more shots at the clearly covered receivers, but then he'd probably have a few picks on his resume. I'm not sure who would really like to see him force balls to covered receivers. Once he starts doing this people will complain about that. From my chair, Ponder isn't the biggest concern with this team.

[Demi]

But do you really think it's easy for the guy with his list of "options"?

Colts and Jaguars aren't exactly stocked with playmakers.

Don't be surprised about Rudolph, he's not the first read, so he's not going to get many targets.

Yeah i know, our WRs and TEs are NEVER open, its not Ponders fault.

It's even more frustrating that we had to hear the same thing about Tarvaris until that experiment completely failed. Yeah they don't have the best weapons out there, but that's when good quarterbacks go through progressions and find open receivers. They buy time for receivers to get open. They help their linemen by moving around in the pocket. Gabbert and Luck were both capable of it. Ponder just panics...

[Mothman]

It's even more frustrating that we had to hear the same thing about Tarvaris until that experiment completely failed. Yeah they don't have the best weapons out there, but that's when good quarterbacks go through progressions and find open receivers. They buy time for receivers to get open. They help their linemen by moving around in the pocket. Gabbert and Luck were both capable of it. Ponder just panics...

I just re-watched the first half and wasn't just panicking on the sacks that occurred in that half. He was under pressure without room to step up. He either went down or tried to buy time. On one play, he escaped to the outside (his only real option) and tried to re-set his feet to make a throw. Before he could do it, defenders converged on him and he just had to go down.

I see trend developing where every time Ponder leaves the pocket, he's accused of panicking or being impatient. That's been true on some plays but there have been quite a few where he simply had no other option.

[Demi]

I see trend developing where every time Ponder leaves the pocket, he's accused of panicking or being impatient. That's been true on some plays but there have been quite a few where he simply had no other option.

He's a gun shy dog. And there isn't any fixing it. We should have realized it when he admitted he lost his confidence in the Detroit game last year. What quarterback is going to admit they lost their confidence? In a single game in a no where season? Yeah not every time he leaves the pocket, but there are a number of times he panics, gets happy feet, or just ignores other options just waiting for his primary read to get open. Desperate that he can get rid of the ball. His brain no longer functioning like it should.

How many times has Ponder thrown a ball away if nothing is there? How many times does he go from his read to a check down when it isn't early in his progression?

Heck just last week he's talking about "playing mad" to start off the game. What kind of ego driven NFL player needs to try and pump themselves up like that? He didn't have that to begin with? This deep into his football career and he still has these issues?

It gets worse and worse.