I think he showed in New England he can keep his distractions in check, but he did next to nothing on the field. I know they didn't seem to give him much opportunity last season but when he was out there he did nothing. I think some of you are basing his ability on Madden 2010. Most importantly I would just say he's not necessary and I like our group of young-ish receivers and would rather see them get more experience in the game than having to share the ball with an old man. Plus I definitely wouldn't look to him as a mentor or teacher.

I just fail to see the benefit of Ocho. He'd sign for (presumably) a one-year deal or two max.

A) Why would he even want to sign here? The Vikings aren't going to be a contender in the next two years. If he just wants to have a shot at making a roster, I can understand. We don't have the strongest receivers in the world. But we do have quite a few with, presumably, long-term upside. However I would prefer Ponder getting reps and building chemistry with guys that will be here for more than a year or two (assuming Ponder is the starter beyond this season).

B) Given that the Vikings aren't going to be contenders in the next two years, why would they want to give playing time to a declining receiver when there are guys on the roster with potential and could benefit from the reps? I would doubt he's a Cris Carter type of mentor, especially given his style of play (see below)

C) It's been reported that Ocho has always been a bit of a freestyle runner and has taken "liberties" with playbook and his routes. That drove Brady crazy (and Palmer before him). Above all else, that's why he didn't see the field in New England much. Plus, according to Bengals.com, T.J. Houshmandzadeh used to tell Ochocinco where to line up on offense in Cincinnati. Deion Branch had to do the same in New England.



Ponder doesn't need that. He has enough to worry about. And, frankly, I don't want our receivers to "learn" under that type of "leadership" either. He sounds more like a guy you watch and say, "Here's an example of what you DON'T want to do."

Yes, he still has talent. But what I feel that the benefit Ocho would bring over, say, Jenkins, doesn't make it worth it.

Finally, while I think Childs has potential to be a solid receiver, at this juncture saying he has potential to be the next Randy Moss is more than a little misguided. Moss is/was an absolute freak. Childs doesn't have nearly the build, skill set and athletic ability of Moss. That's not even debatable.

I agree with most of this but Moss was a bean pole his first two years in the league and although he is a little taller Childs has the much better build and strength. Moss overshadows him with his speed and has got more athletic ability no doubt. I would be pleased if Childs is 80% "Mosslike".

And that matters...how? That bean pole caught 149 passes for 2,726 yards and 28 touchdowns in his first two years! I'd be shocked if Childs hits those numbers in three.



Pretty sure I'd take Moss' height, speed, body control, hands and leaping ability over a "better build" (whatever that means) and strength. But that's just me.



I'd be fine with that. Preferably the talent portions.

In all honesty, Randy is in a class with the greatest of all time. The only guys that will probably be in the same category are those drafted in the first round. Granted Childs' injury probably dropped him a round, but he's still not a first-round receiving talent. If he somehow finishes his career with comparisons to Randy Moss I'll be overjoyed. But I'll put the chances of that happening at a generous 5%.

Yes a lot of people around the NFL, players, fans, etc respect Chad. His antics are harmless he's just having a good time he's not a cancer and by all accounts is a hard worker and a nice guy. "OH NOES HE CHANGED HIZ NAME N CELEBRATE TDs!!!!111"

The media always blows stuff out of proportion, specifically ESPN. He is not a Terrell Owens who is a locker room cancer and he is not one of the many criminals in the NFL who cause distractions.

With all that being said I still think signing him makes no sense for the Vikings.

The case in this thread to sign a veteran WR, whether it is Ochocinco or someone else, seems to be so the WR corps doesn’t have to re-learn lessons that could already be instilled by someone who has learned them. I’m all for this as it will aid in player development. However, also implicit in this discussion is that the Vikings WR coach is incapable of teaching these lessons. Perhaps that wasn’t intended, but it is there. Was this an unintended consequence or does someone have some info?

As far as Jenkins is concerned I might question his veteran leadership. He certainly doesn’t walk the walk on the field. Of course he could be like Chris Wienke and be a sub par NFL QB, but a great coach. I don’t know.

Regarding Moss: I think physical talent wise he was the best we’ve ever seen, a once in a generation athlete. (Is Megatron in the same league, physically?) Childs is not at that level, but if he has a solid head on his shoulders and can maintain his durability, then there he has the physical tools to be elite, IMO.

Chad Ochocinco - WR - Dolphins

Dolphins signed WR Chad Ochocinco to a one-year contract.

Ocho is 34 now, and you don't need us to tell you he hasn't been productive lately. Perhaps he'll concern himself with football in Miami. Assuming he does, we like Ochocinco's chances of beating out the likes of Legedu Naanee and rookie B.J. Cunningham for the starting spot opposite Brian Hartline. The new coaching staff doesn't seem at all taken with second-year wideout Clyde Gates, and Davone Bess is entrenched in the slot.
Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports Jun 11 - 8:58 PM

Dead Poet> "Childs doesn't have nearly the BUILD, skill set and athletic ability of Moss. That's not even debatable."
Since you took the time to disect my post I was simply responding to you stating that Moss had a better build I said that Childs had the better build and more strength than Moss had. Not sure what you read into that I was discounting you saying that Moss had a better build (kind of nit picking)

I'm not sure I'd say i'm taking sides since both of you are saying a lot, but Randy Moss' value as a receiver was not based on being physical impressive or athletic. There were guys taller, stronger, faster, and with a greater vertical leap than him. He was scrawny at first and did bulk up a little bit, but was hardly a Calvin Johnson type athlete physically.

What made Randy Moss so incredible was his freakish instinctual timing. He could run fast at that exact moment where he could beat guys (even if that same guy would probably win a standard race), and most importantly he could jump for those balls at the exact millisecond to grab that ball before the defender. Moss was pure intangibles and talent based on his reflexes and his hand-eye coordination. That also explains why his work ethic came into question so often, because often times when your talent is so great you don't feel compelled to work 110% or give 100% all the time (see Shaquille O'Neal) and for that reason those mega-talents are often criticized for failing to reach their full potential no matter what sort of records they set.

Gbfavrefan:
"I'm not sure I'd say i'm taking sides since both of you are saying a lot, but Randy Moss' value as a receiver was not based on being physical impressive or athletic. There were guys taller, stronger, faster, and with a greater vertical leap than him. He was scrawny at first and did bulk up a little bit, but was hardly a Calvin Johnson type athlete physically."
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
There should be no sides, I simply stated that Childs has a better build and more strength than Moss had. Here is my quote "I agree with most of this but Moss was a bean pole his first two years in the league and although he is a little taller Childs has the much better build and strength. Moss overshadows him with his speed and has got more athletic ability no doubt. I would be pleased if Childs is 80% "Mosslike"."
And so I never intimated that Childs was, is, or ever will be in the same class as Moss, but he does have a better build and he is stronger than Moss especially Moss's first couple of years when he was a virtual "bean pole".

I know we're just nit-picking (gotta love the offseason) but I take issue with some of this. There may have been taller receivers, faster receivers and those with a higher vertical leap. But there were few (if any) that had/have his combination. The whole package. That guy that may have ran a 4.24-40 probably isn't 6'5. The guy with a 42-inch vertical leap probably can't run a 4.25. And so on. The combination is what made/makes him unique. I reference you this 1997 Sports Illustrated article:



Sure, his timing and body control (and reflexes and hand-eye coordination) were amazing but I contend that's all part of his overall athleticism. Strength was a weak area for Moss, but he was so far ahead of everybody else with the rest that it hardly mattered. So when someone says that his value as a receiver wasn't based on his athleticism I just can't wrap my head around it. Maybe we're all simply saying the same thing...differently.

I think that's probably it

I agree. It is the off season so lets knock of the nit picking and oh by the way Moss wis 6-4 not 6-5.

Bud Grant used to fine players for spiking the ball or if I remember right any type of celebration. He considered it their job to get in the end zone and doing your job well is what you are supposed to do and nothing to celebrate about.

ya i understand the mindset, and have played for a couple coaches like that in my day. and don't get me wrong...i have all the respect in the world for coach grant. i just disagree with this point. we take life too seriously and sports are no exception. they are supposed to be fun. they are supposed to bring joy to fans and players alike. and i just hate the hypocracy of fans getting to act as crazy as entitled as they want for liking a team....but the guys doing all the work are supposed to be dull and bland and just ho-hum. i just don't agree. i don't want guys showing up the other team and picking fights. and i dont want long and drawn out celebrations. but i want these athletes to be able to have some fun out there. this game isn't just about the fans getting to be wild and crazy and cocky and entitled.

[/quote]

ya i understand the mindset, and have played for a couple coaches like that in my day. and don't get me wrong...i have all the respect in the world for coach grant. i just disagree with this point. we take life too seriously and sports are no exception. they are supposed to be fun. they are supposed to bring joy to fans and players alike. and i just hate the hypocracy of fans getting to act as crazy as entitled as they want for liking a team....but the guys doing all the work are supposed to be dull and bland and just ho-hum. i just don't agree. i don't want guys showing up the other team and picking fights. and i dont want long and drawn out celebrations. but i want these athletes to be able to have some fun out there. this game isn't just about the fans getting to be wild and crazy and cocky and entitled.[/quote]

I know how you feel I am not as apposed to celebration As BG was but it can get out of hand. And even then I sometimes enjoy it. The moon over Lambeau would be an example.

Still overblown to this day.

Moss did not actually drop his pants like some made it sound like he did. *cough* Joe Buck *cough*. Also there's actually a backstory to his faux moon. It was shot at the Packers fans who moon the opposing teams bus outside the stadium.

Yah I know, I handed out copies of the picture to packers fans at work after that game. Fond memories...