Stuff from our new GM

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dead_poet
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by dead_poet »

Vikings open to trading down, but not too far
Vikings General Manager Rick Spielman wants everyone to know he'll seriously consider trading the No. 3 pick, open to moving back if the right deal materializes.
Listen to Vikings General Manager Rick Spielman talk about the upcoming NFL draft and it's easy to identify a trend. Spielman wants everyone to know he'll seriously consider trading the No. 3 pick, open to moving back if the right deal materializes.

On Thursday at the NFL combine, Spielman made his most public declaration yet on that front, saying directly, "We're definitely going to be looking to move out."

Sure, some of the rhetoric might be the requisite poker bluffing that can be used to improve draft leverage. But the new GM has also made it clear he believes the Vikings' roster is in a state that will require a large stockpile of talented players to upgrade.

So while Spielman remains confident in the kind of difference-maker he could land if the Vikings keeps the third pick, he's also entertaining his desire to accumulate as many picks as possible.

"In order for you to sustain a roster and a competitive roster year in and year out, you have to fill that roster with young draft picks," Spielman said.

At present, the Vikings expect to have 10 picks for April -- until further notice.

"The thing you have to be careful of is if you do trade back, how far do you trade back before you get a very good player compared to a difference-maker?" Spielman said. "So as this process continues, we'll definitely home in on that.
A few more tidbits: http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 46273.html
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
dead_poet
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by dead_poet »

Tom Pelissero on Twitter
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Demi
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by Demi »

Spielman said proliferation of one-year deals is player-driven -- if they're not finding a market, they want the chance to cash in next year
Yeah, they didn't want to be stuck on a garbage team for any real amount of time. So let's give them the stage, give them the snaps, and if they're good, lose them. That's the ticket!
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by DarthBrooks »

Be honest, you would have complained loudly if they had given them multi year contracts.
Demi
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by Demi »

DarthBrooks wrote:Be honest, you would have complained loudly if they had given them multi year contracts.
We gave Carlson a multi-year deal. Despite injuries and a lack of consistency. And the young guys with promise like Erin, Bowman, Schwartz, would be nice to have around beyond a season. And we have nothing to keep them here. Especially if they were the ones pushing for the one year deals just to get something on tape for a better team next year. There was nothing wrong with who they signed in a few cases, it's that we're a rebuilding team handing out 1 year deals to guys coming off their rookie deals. We need consistency, especially on the offensive line. won't do anyone any good if we plug in Schwartz for a year then he leaves.
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by HornedMessiah »

dead_poet wrote:Spielman said proliferation of one-year deals is player-driven -- if they're not finding a market, they want the chance to cash in next year
That may be partly true, but perhaps all the one-year deals are an acknowledgement that the roster could be blown up next year if Frazier has another bad season and gets fired. I think Spielman and Frazier probably like each other, but I imagine that Spielman would prefer to hire his own HC and then completely overhaul the roster.
Eli
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by Eli »

HornedMessiah wrote: That may be partly true, but perhaps all the one-year deals are an acknowledgement that the roster could be blown up next year if Frazier has another bad season and gets fired. I think Spielman and Frazier probably like each other, but I imagine that Spielman would prefer to hire his own HC and then completely overhaul the roster.
I don't think it's that at all. Players not in demand want one year contracts to prove themselves. Would you rather have a one year contract or a three year contract at the league minimum? It's very much a factor of the quality of player that they're signing.
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by HornedMessiah »

Eli wrote:I don't think it's that at all. Players not in demand want one year contracts to prove themselves. Would you rather have a one year contract or a three year contract at the league minimum? It's very much a factor of the quality of player that they're signing.
At all? I guess you're thinking about it like this is all the Vikings can get right now because they're so unattractive. I'm saying that it's a calculated strategy. Think about this from Spielman's perspective: Frazier didn't inspire much confidence last season. If he has another downer season, he might be gone. Why go sign free agents to long contracts when the team may be in a state of flux for a few years? Best to sign promising talent for a one year commitment, and if things go great then offer them an extension. If not, then Frazier gets canned and a new HC is brought in and the rebuilding continues. It's not that we can't go out and make bigger signings, it's more because it wouldn't be smart right now.

If the team does well next season, Ponder looks good and Frazier sticks around, I think we'll see them be more aggressive in free agency.
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by Eli »

HornedMessiah wrote:At all? I guess you're thinking about it like this is all the Vikings can get right now because they're so unattractive.
No, that's not what I'm thinking. It's just who they've gone after. Except for Carlson, they're guys who aren't commanding big bucks because they haven't done much yet in their careers, or they've been hurt. It's more in the players own interest, if they're going to sign contracts for low salaries, to have those contracts be as short as possible.

Longer contracts are no more a commitment to a player than one year contracts if there's not much of it guaranteed. There's absolutely no reason that you can't cut a guy one or two years into a four year contract if there's little guaranteed money.
I'm saying that it's a calculated strategy. Think about this from Spielman's perspective: Frazier didn't inspire much confidence last season. If he has another downer season, he might be gone. Why go sign free agents to long contracts when the team may be in a state of flux for a few years?
If there were any truth to that, how well do you think it would sit with Leslie Frazier? Do you think you've figured out Spielman's plan, but Frazier would be unable to? I see no reason why Spielman would purposely tick off the team's head coach by saying "we're not committing a lot of resources to players for you because you may not be here for long".

To some extent, we're talking about two different things. The guys they've signed so far don't rate longer contracts, big signing bonuses or big guarantees. They're mostly scrubs and question marks who are looking for an opportunity. You're talking about going out and signing big names, who, if young and in demand, would most definitely NOT be signing one year contracts for peanuts.
Best to sign promising talent for a one year commitment, and if things go great then offer them an extension. If not, then Frazier gets canned and a new HC is brought in and the rebuilding continues. It's not that we can't go out and make bigger signings, it's more because it wouldn't be smart right now.

If the team does well next season, Ponder looks good and Frazier sticks around, I think we'll see them be more aggressive in free agency.
I think the reasons that they haven't gone after bigger name players is that they want to

a) Take a more grass-roots approach and see how developing players in-house works out. If it does work out, it can be a whole lot cheaper. Zygi has been down the road of throwing big money at free agents and I'm sure it's left a little bit of a bad taste given the results.

b) It's too early in the rebuilding cycle. Those players and those dollars may be wasted while Ponder gets up to speed (if he gets up to speed) and the rest of the team is rebuilt. I expect it to take at least this and one more draft before this team becomes competitive. Not just for the players they'll gain in the drafts, but for developing young players and getting some experience under their belts.
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by mondry »

Personally I don't believe that's the reason for the 1 year deals, that Frazier might get canned. I think it's just kinda worked out that way due to the nature of the players we happen to be targeting. Most of the guys who received the 1 year deals wouldn't be thrown away if a coach came in with a different scheme had they received longer deals so it just doesn't make much sense there. I don't buy that we would have thrown 50 million at garcon or any other free agent just because spielman does or doesn't have faith in Frazier either.

The only thing I can really buy is that the 1 year deals is how it would have gone anyway and then WAAAAY down the road as a secondary thought "well it works out if frazier gets canned too." Though I think this is a bit of a stretch anyway.
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by mansquatch »

The short term deals are mutually beneficial to both the vikings and the players in question, IMO. Every guy we have signed either has an injury history (Carlson/ Schwartz) or are unproven developmental prospects: Bowman and to much lesser degree Erin Henderson.

The short term deal provides insurance to the Vikings. If the player does not pan out, they lose one year of money, but can limit the cap hits. Also the player benefits, since if they "prove it" then they get to come back to the bargaining table in 2013 and say "pay me what I'm worth".

The downside for the Vikings is that they will have to revist the contracts of performers in 1 year and are less likely to get a "steal" on some of them.

It isn't perfect, but you can see the logic behind it. I do not think coaching tenure has anything to do with it.
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by glg »

Eli wrote:Longer contracts are no more a commitment to a player than one year contracts if there's not much of it guaranteed. There's absolutely no reason that you can't cut a guy one or two years into a four year contract if there's little guaranteed money.
For exactly those reasons, the players don't want such a deal. They either want a long term deal with good guaranteed money or a one year deal where they'll put up a good season and hopefully get the guaranteed money next year.
dead_poet
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by dead_poet »

Nice piece on Spielman. Worth the read.

Attention to detail elevates Spielman's role with Vikings
Spielman's predecessor, Fran Foley, lasted only three months until being fired the Monday after the 2006 draft. His abrasive personality didn't mesh inside the organization and was partly responsible for his downfall. Foley didn't produce written player evaluations, sources with knowledge of the situation have revealed.

Spielman, on the other hand, is surrounded in his office by at least 50 large three-ring binders filled with information he's written. On players, on scouts, on his staff. What went right, what went wrong. And, yes, he also points to a binder that contains a self-evaluation.

"Maybe a weakness is I overanalyze everything, just because I like to dig so deep," Spielman said. "You have to make sure you're not overwhelmed, but you also have to understand that you can never have enough information."

Spielman also knows that stacks of binders aren't going to impress a skeptical fan base.

"No one is ever perfect in this business," Spielman said. "Worrying about what people are saying just distracts you from your task. And I'm very task-oriented. As for the results, well, eventually we'll all find those out in wins and losses down the road."
http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 50995.html
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by The Breeze »

Good article, it puts some of his Miami tenure in the light. I've been very skeptical of his promotion and the ownerships ability to do things correctly, but I'd really like for his vision to come full circle here at Minny. My concern with the whole GM process of picking players is that it sometimes appears that there is so much analyzing, testing and think-tank questionnaires thrown into the equation that it obscures their ability to just look at a guy and say, "This kid is a football player and a guy we want".

I really think this organization has made the right choice to build through the draft.......but like others I wonder, do they really know how to do that? I don't think that answer comes from who they draft in the first two rounds. You should get good players in rds 1-2.....whether they pan out or not is another thing. Where they need to make their hay is in the later rounds by drafting football smart guys who lack that sense of entitlement. Blue collar glue guys. Some front office people just have a knack for spotting these kids and their organizations reap the benefits. We have 10 picks on a team riddled with holes. I really hope they can walk their talk this draft.
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Re: Stuff from our new GM

Post by Mothman »

dead_poet wrote:Nice piece on Spielman. Worth the read.
Thanks for the link. That was definitely worth reading and I hope Spielman can succeed as Vikings GM, not just because I'm a lifelong Vikings fan and I want the team to do well but because he seems like a person who is truly dedicated to his profession, who has worked very hard to get where he is now, and it would be nice to see a guy like that succeed.

Jim
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