With all due respect, Cliff, where does it stop?

Jim Carrey makes $20 million a movie. Does he owe moviegoers something besides the job he's paid for?

The President of the United States makes $400,000 a year. That's the minimum salary in Major League Baseball and about a tenth of the average salary. It just can't be right for a mop-up reliever to make more than the president, so ballplayers must owe somebody something, right?

Calvin Borel has turned an 8th-grade education into a multi-million dollar career as a jockey. Does he owe something to the people who bet on him and lost? How about those who bet against him? Or maybe he owes money to other high-school dropouts. After all, they're needy, right?

Some bank CEOs make hundreds of millions per year. Do they owe their bank patrons part of their salary? Or just the job they were hired to do?

You say that most athletes wouldn't even be able to go to college without sports. But isn't it true that those same colleges make millions per year (not to mention incalculable publicity) off of their performances? Universities throughout the US have suffered double-digit decreases in state support over the past few years ... but how likely is it that revenue from fattened TV contracts will end up flowing into a big university's general operating budget to pay for academic scholarships, lab equipment, libraries, etc.? Not bloody. It goes to pay for more and better athletic performance. Don't the universities owe somebody?

The truth, sad as it is for many, is that we live in a capitalist system. That means each person is supposed to be free to earn whatever they're able. Like every other football player, baseball player, jockey, movie star, CEO or burger flipper, Brett Favre is free to negotiate for whatever he can get. He was paid around $11 million in 2009. His contract didn't stipulate that he owed fans something if he didn't win the Super Bowl. It only stipulated that he play football for the Minnesota Vikings. He did that (and then some. IMO).

And while athletes have the right to get whatever they can, you and I have the right to pay -- or not pay -- whatever we want to support it. I paid $350 a ticket for two seats in the 24th row on the 50-yard-line for the 49ers game last year. With hotel, I easily dropped $1,000 for a single game. And yet, I left the stadium feeling like I got 10 times my money's worth.

If you don't want to spend your money on pro football, by all means don't. That's absolutely your right. But just remember that it's also my right to spend my money on whatever I want. And it's Brett Favre's right to negotiate the terms of his employment, same as you. That's the American way.

Like with most things in life there should be a middle ground. I'm not saying that the players need to chop off one of their limbs if a fan asks ... but saying they don't owe the fans "anything"? That doesn't sit well with me. The fans make it possible for the players (and Jim Carrey) to have their jobs.

People who get paid to entertain, at the very least, owe their fans their gratitude. Jim Carrey isn't the only person who's capable of doing his role. Just like Brett Favre isn't the only person capable of being a QB.



Yes, ballplayers owe it to their fans to go out and do the best that they can, because they're getting paid so much money. Ball players owe the people who decided to spend their money on them their gratitude.



Again, I'm not saying they 'owe' someone money. The fans have decided that they're worth spending that money on.



They owe it to their patrons, who trust them with their money, to do their job honestly.



Again, yes, the universities owe those players something (which they provide via scholarships, etc). They owe it to the fans of the sport to conduct business in an honest way as well.



I don't disagree. Brett Favre owed it to the fans to play to the best of his ability ... and I feel like he did that. Again, my post wasn't aimed at Favre (I mentioned at the end that it was kind of off topic).



Again, I agree. I suppose I was looking at the "fans" as "customers". When you pay for something, you expect something in return. If the NFL/teams/players don't owe the fans *anything*, what exactly are you paying for?

well there is middle ground. as i explained players do owe us enough to go out and play a game because we paid for a ticket. that i agree with. but saying favre owes us because he threw an interception is crap. he doesn't owe us a thing just like i don't owe him a thing. it's a partnership. i choose to watch these guys play because it makes my life better. i love the wins and hate the losses. but once i buy a ticket, and the players step on the field, i think we're even. why do fans have the right to determine what more the players have to give us. do they OWE us playoff wins. do they OWE us superbowl wins? do they OWE us touchdowns, or firstdowns, or highlight reel plays? i don't think so. they provide a service, we pay to watch it.

My response wasn't about Favre (I even said as much in my first post). It was about your broad statement that "Athletes don't owe us anything".

I disagree.

Like I said above ... they don't owe us the moon ... but we're owed more than nothing.

They entertain us on the field on Sundays, thats enough for me.

The way I see it, they work for their employers, the team. I expect the team to put a good product on the field, but the players should do, as best they can, what their boss expects of them, and the coaches should do, as best they can, what the owner expects of them.

I don't see why we should expect the players to do more than any of us that work for an employer do for our boss. The players earn their money as a result of fan interest -- I think that is different from saying the players "owe the fans." I once built water towers; I don't think tha means I ever "owed" the taxpayers of, say, Cedar Rapids, Iowa anything because they bought a water tower.

I get to watch NFL football, Vikings football. If I watch on TV, at home, I get to watch for free. If a player or coach screws up, I don't take at as a personal offense.

Well, it looks like we've been talking different languages to come to basically the same conclusion.

By your comments, I inferred that you were agreeing with Samkon that Favre owes us something because he threw a pick at the end of regulation. It appears I inferred incorrectly.

In the end, this is about what we're willing to pay for.

I do disagree with you about one thing ... certain guys are irreplaceable, at least at this moment in time. There is only one Jim Carrey. There is only one Brett Favre. There are plenty of people who will go to a movie solely because Jim Carrey is in it, just as there are people who become Vikings fans solely because Brett Favre is the quarterback. I wish some of you could have met the couple we met in the Vikings Store at Mall of America last year. They have been Favre fans since the early 90s and have been to virtually every pro game he's ever played in, home or away. Not Packer, Jet or Viking fans. Favre fans. They travel by RV every week to wherever he plays and pay whatever they must to get a ticket. By the way, they live in Texas, not Wisconsin or Mississippi.

While that's an extreme example, a LOT of people would watch a football game simply because Brett Favre is playing in it. Not so for Tarvaris Jackson.

The uniqueness of Brett Favre or Jim Carrey or any other star is what makes them able to command such big money. If we're willing to pay it, then nobody really owes anybody anything. They get paid, and we get entertained. If fans of Jim Carrey feel he's not delivering what they want, they'll stop paying for him, and he'll eventually be unable to command the money he gets. Same with Favre. At some point, he's going to be too old for this. He won't be able to play effectively, and we'll stop paying for him.

So, what is the latest news on Favre? Do we know if he's going to play this season or not?

no he's doing what he has been doing the past couple of seasons. announcing he's coming back after training camp is over

No, I wasn't agreeing with Samkon about Favre. I just didn't like the comment "Athletes don't owe fans anything". Everybody that's getting paid to do a job owes *somebody* something. My statement had very little to do with Favre who is nothing if not entertaining and so certainly earns his money.



There's always a replacement. Yes, there are people who are 'Favre' fans ... but most of them won't stop watching football when he retires (just like with Dan Marino, Joe Montana, etc, etc, etc). They'll find a new "favorite" and the world keeps turning.

I'm not saying that these guys don't bring something unique ... especially in Favre's case ... but there will be someone after them that commands just as much respect and money. At the end of the day, it's the fans that are willing to pay whatever they do. I feel like the "they don't owe the fans anything" ideology is what breeds guys like Terrell Owens ... and if the league gets too jam packed with guys like that, I think the players will start to remember just how much they really do owe the fans when they can't sell out games anymore.

No Peter, Favre's ETA in Mankato remains never. He'll report to Winter Park the Monday after the first preseason game when camp has already broken.

All im saying is that millions of little kids bought his Jersey and he had millions of fans so close to the promised land and he just non cholantly threw it all in the trash. Its just human nature that he should feel bad for hurting all those peoples feelings and he would want to try to make it right by trying again. Thats all I was saying. Yes yes im some hater or jerk or whatever. please.

I think players owe their teams and fans their best. Nothing more or less. They should come to camp in shape,and do the extra things necessary to be a better athlete and help win that prize. And most importantly, they should act as role models. A lot of kids look up to them. As for Favre, he doesn't owe me anything. He played his heart out last year,and helped entertain me more then any team/player has since the 98 Vikes. If the guy physically can not play this year, then I thank him for his time last year. What ever the outcome, thank you Brett Favre. And Please Play if your ankle feels better.

I remember Favre saying that he would let the Vikings know something earlier this year than last year but he hasn't said a thing yet. You know "Favre Watch" just aint what it used to be. The novelty of him waiting and eating up the press is wanning a bit.

If you are trying to teach your children about hard work and solid commitment dont point to Brett Favre. I use him as an example of how not to be. I teach my sons to look up to people that tell the truth and understand the importance of commitment and hard work. Its a shame that our society looks up to people that act like this clown. Whats even worse is that most of you people think there is nothing wrong with his 'charades' or that somehow he has earned the right to skip boot camp. I would NEVER give him a pass, GB didnt, and i dont think too many would. Vince Lombardi, Papa bear Halas, among other great coaches would have sent this guy packing a long long time ago.

Nobody in the history of the league has been able to pull this kind of crap, why is this 'Diva' any different ?
Maybe if he would have worked harder all of these years he's played in the league he'd have a few more Superbowls under his belt. Green Bay did a smart thing getting rid of him when they did, props to them for doing what was right.

somebody's bitter. what we believe is that Favre has played 20 years in the NFL and paid his dues. So we don't have a problem with him waiting until August to announce his decision. I believe that its ok for him to skip OTAs and Mini-camp because what possibly can a guy in the league for 20 years learn something new

your entire posts screams bitterness but if you actually believe the above quoted portion of your rant than you don't follow football much. favre isn't the first guy to earn special treatment, and he certainly won't be the last either. i don't understand why you are a part of this board, and i really don't understand why you use his name as your handle if you have such poor opinions of the guy.

Timing with his WR's. Percy's gained 10 pounds and Bernard is healthy again. Sidney's got the hip issue. There will be differences in how they play. Also, there are a lot of new WR's competing for the bottom spots. You never know when we might need them. It would be a good time for #4 to get to know some of his new WR's.

Brett Favre-QB-Vikings Jul. 30 - 9:32 pm et

Vikings owner Zygi Wilf expressed confidence Friday that Brett Favre will play football for his team this season.

"Right now he’s the starting quarterback of our team. So we’re in a good position," said Wilf. Added DE Jared Allen, "If I make it 20 years in, I'm not coming to training camp either. Brett we'll see you in a couple weeks, baby."
Source: Judd Zulgad on Twitter

i'm not saying that i disagree with your post, but shouldn't we at least assume that favre may have a better idea of what he's doing than we do? what if he knows just how long it takes him to get his timing down with his receivers? didn't he show last year that maybe the fans opinion of how long it takes to get this timing and a players opinion of how long it takes to get this timing may not be the same? i'm not saying this timing is not important at all. i just refuse to believe that fans know more than players, coaches, front office, owners, etc. in these matters. it didn't effect him last year. and if none of his teammates seem too concerned about it than neither am i. and last, i think facre has shown time and time again that he's not just another average qb. the guy is a freak and he just may be capable of things other players are not.

I love packer fans. He wants to come back and try to get Green Bay to a Super Bowl and run him out of town and rant about him. He gave you guys your first SB since the Lombardi era.

He started out with 110 yards against Cleveland (who finished 29th in passing yards allowed)
And then 155 yards against Detroit (who finished dead last in passing yards allowed)

By far his lowest totals of the season. Even compared to other games against poor teams or similar situations. I think the lack of preparation was a big part of it.

Really? Really? R E A L LY ??? So teaching your child that if you work hard, become one of the best in the history of your profession, that you will be able to make decisions for your self after 20 years of being the best. That at some point, you don't have to answer to 'the man' because there is this thing called seniority, and once you have earned your seniority by being the best at what you do, others around you just might respect you. That only the jealous ones will talk smack about you, even those who were once your friends...... Man, what was I thinking? I'm just gonna teach my kids to sling dope, that sounds like a way better idea. P.S. If you hate the guy soooooo much, why is your name F4VRE? You confuse me.

possibly. i'm not saying this wasn't the reason for those totals. but i guess i'll have to wait and see what he does after missing camp this year. if he misses camp and puts up great numbers than it may not be a big issue. it could have been jitters. first time in a vikes uni. high expectaions. world watching. and yes, lack of preperation. guess we'll just have to wait and see.

It was a new team, and the Vikings were a Run First Offense. At some point of the learning curve, they figured out they had to balance the system. And that was a learning experience in itself. This season, the system will be all too familiar, and should pick up right where they left off. 22 returning starters....just like the good ole days of football

You are crazy. Especially since you are from Wisconsin. Haven't u been paying attention? You talk about solid work and hard commitment? If i can remember clearly his father died the day before a big game which he made the COMMITMENT to play and they needed to win that game so they can possibly win the division which they did (thanks to Anquan Boldin). Some of his property down south was damaged due to Hurricane Katrina right before the season started, and instead of going there and taking care of the family in case something went wrong he made that COMMITMENT to go be with his team. His brother in law died in a car accident and a week after that his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and yet he still made a COMMITMENT and came to work with his team (Packers). Should I go down the injury list next? Ankle surgeries, tendonitis in his arms, concussions, torn biceps, broken thumb in his throwing hand and he led the league in td passes that same year. Who do you want to teach your sons to look up to Michael Vick? That dude Tom Brady who doesn't show sportsmanship? Aaron Rodgers who cursed out a bunch of sports analyst? This is why I really like Brett Favre and he's a hero to me and should be to alot of people as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football ... over_x.htm

true but why throw when you're playing Cleveland and Detroit? just run the ball over them

I think it was more that it was still "Adrian's team". Favre was just a janitor for those games, and his only job was to not turn the ball over and make good throws on 3rd down. Week 3, our philosophy changed when we had to pass more, and we saw how potent our pass offense could be. Then the last-second miracle happened, and the rest is history.

[quote][Nobody in the history of the league has been able to pull this kind of crap, why is this 'Diva' any different ?
/quote]

Nobody in the history of the league has started at QB for that many years either. I bet if some other QB's had been given the option to skip camp they would have played for a year or two longer. Also I can't think of too many QB's that can skip camp, come to a new team and lead them through the season the Vikings had last year. He dose not need the reps in camp. Our other QB's do. This is just smart.

Vinny Testaverde.