No, it's because of the NIMBY factor. Everyone wants a stadium, no one wants to pay taxes for it...so...not in my backyard (if I have to pay for it). The economy isn't quite churning fast enough yet for people to feel good about taxes going to a stadium that will effectively make a billionaire wealthier. Most of the politicians that made big promises about "not raising taxes" and "fiscal responsibility" painted themselves into a corner. Also, the votes to approve the stadium were far, far closer than people seem to be making them out to be. It came down to just a few politicians really that felt like they had sufficiently dogged the bill enough that they could have it both ways...they could say they got the stadium while being "fiscally responsible". But buying some crappy buildings where the owners were probably looking for huge $$ from the billionaire owner just to be torn down for tailgating lots? NO WAY that's ever going to fly.


Here's the thing about cities: There are more people in them than the countryside. True story. Shorter commute for more people usually happens when the stadium is closer to the most people. If you live near Arden Hills, then..."I feel yer pain!" But the most people live in and around the Twin Cities, and putting a stadium in the middle generally means the majority of people don't have to drive as far. If you want to whine about mass transit, then don't whine at me. I live in Portland. We have two stadiums in downtown and everyone takes mass transit to get there. People have adopted that practice and take pride in it...and honestly, it's easier than driving. When you're standing on a train next to a bunch of other fellow Vikings fans getting pumped up for the game, it's a great socialization thing. Blazers fans do it all the time in Portland, as well as Timbers fans. Portland can sell out SOCCER games that way. It IS a shorter commute for a whole lot of people. Not to mention, if you stick the stadium 10 miles out in the suburbs to the north, it's a long commute for anyone south of the Cities. If you stick it in the west, it's a long way for people on the east side. See what I'm saying?

Bottom line, though, tailgating doesn't sell as many tickets as just having a good product on the field. The point for Wilf is to sell tickets and be profitable. When the team is profitable, it will put a better product on the field. I wouldn't really call tailgating a "craze", as well, it's been around for decades. There's definitely a segment that enjoys that, and that's all fine and good, but it doesn't guarantee the team will sell as many tickets.

I think they ended up figuring a plaza type atmosphere where the team could increase revenues was preferable to the BYO culture of tailgating. I'm not doubting the team was all in on the tailgating at Arden Hills when they had complete control of parking revenues. In Minneapolis, they changed the dynamic away from tailgating, for solid business reasons.

There are not. The population density is greater, but in and around most metro areas the population of the suburbs and outlying towns is far greater than in the city. And because there are more people in the outlying areas, that's where most people attending a game in the city will be coming from.

There are more people in the outlying areas total ... but that's not exactly what you're looking for when you're talking about being close to as many people as possible. Population density is the name of that game.

That hasn't been what I've been talking about. I've been talking about convenience, ease of commuting to a game, ease of parking, ease of getting out after a game. "Close", in miles, is meaningless when you can drive 10 miles on a interstate in 10 minutes. There's a reason why few large stadiums are built in the middle of cities and it's not just because the land is difficult to acquire. If you offer no parking, it really doesn't take a whole lot of land, as can be seen in Minneapolis.

If you take a city like New York, it's a lot different. You can easily fill a 60,000 seat stadium from people living only within the city and mass transit is such that several million people have easy access. There probably aren't five cities in the US like that.

Here here!!

Minnesota and the Vikings got incredibly lucky to get an owner like Wilf. Sure, he came in green but he has finally improved the organizational structure and how many others would have stayed the course and got the stadium deal done before either giving up and selling the team or moving?

The issue with Harvin is the kind of thing that could happen on any team and the fact that it got put out in a matter of a few days is a sign that things are changing as well.

Even if they might not be immediately successful it seems like the team finally has a solid internal structure and they have ironed out a lot of wrinkles with their policies and the way the run the team.

For a 3-13 team I feel pretty optimistic about the team and it's largely due to the fact that I think Zigi is a dedicated owner who actually seems to be learning how to do his job.

wilf was a pitbull thats for sure. love this guy. most would have given up and went for the big market.

I was on StarTrib reading about how FEMA declined aid to Duluth, and some moron blamed the Vikings stadium for that. They used all the money on the stadium, they said, no money is left for Duluth. And people wonder why the world is going down hill. I can't believe some of these peple can even get out of bed without hurting themselves.

Please use this thread going forward for discussions on the build, etc
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