Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6626
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 297

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by VikingLord » Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:40 pm

S197 wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:24 pm
Carrying the team was poorly worded as I agree there were several players who stepped up at key moments. But it would be hard to argue that Cook was not the offensive showcase that night. He did it on the ground and through the air, even if they were predominantly screens. And that's basically my point, we don't really need a $30 million dollar QB to throw screen passes to your RB or a couple of 1-yard TD's to your TE. How many passes did Cousins have down field? There was the pass to Diggs, which looked badly underthrown but lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it was intentional based on the coverage. Other than that, maybe a 10-yard pass here and there?
I can't argue on that point, but Cousins did make that incredible throw to Rudolph on the first score and he made some other nice throws. He wasn't as good as Prescott in that game, nor did he perform the miracles one might expect from a $30 million QB, but he executed the offense as it was called.

Look, I don't want it to seem like I don't think Cook is a good player or anything. I think he's a very good player and all things considered I want him on the Vikings of course.

I just don't think he's earned a big payday yet, mostly due to his inability to stay healthy, but also on the general principle that he signed a contract and should hold up his part of it. I have a more general concern related to investing big chunks of cap in the RB position, both because of the history of the star RB on past Vikings' teams, but also from looking at the teams that are competitive for Superbowls in recent history. The available evidence suggests it isn't a good investment no matter how good the RB is, and that is true even for RBs who have stayed healthy and been consistent.

But I'll admit Stump, Cliff and you all make good points too.

I'm OK if the Vikings trade Cook if that is the way forward provided Spielman gets compensation. I'm OK if they can work out a reasonable extension that pays Cook if it also benefits the Vikings as a team and doesn't cause future issues. I'm also OK if they let Cook sit if that's what he wants to do. I think between their investments at OL over the last few offseasons and the other RBs on the team they can survive and even thrive without him.

With that said I really hope the Vikings and Cook can find a way for everyone to get what they want without anyone else getting hurt in the process.
1 x

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8068
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 726

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:34 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:33 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:46 pm

VikingLord said 4-6 million can be better used elsewhere, and 4-6 million for a single player typically lands you a Shamar Stephen type player. A guy who you won't miss if he weren't here and who might actually be hurting the team by stunting the growth of a more raw, younger player forced to sit behind him.

Just adding 5 million to whatever number the VIKINGS are willing to pay won't happen. They are only willing to pay what they are willing to pay. Adding 5 million to what the fans are willing to pay Cook is another story. Some guys don't think he is worth more than 6 million a year, some think he is worth 13. If we are adding 5 million to that 6 million number, it won't hurt the Vikings ability to sign free agents in a significant way.
yeah wasn't it Kapp who I highly respect talking the $4 million max. I thought you were saying that we should add $5million to what we were already offering and no IMO we shouldn't. Even with the Vikings holding all the leverage I don't see any way he signs for less than 10 million. If we aren't willing to go that high let's pack it in and trade him now.
Let me clarify my point once again.

My $4 million max is based on an overall philosophy that it’s not wise to pay big money to a position that has such a short shelf life and that rarely pays you back in the modern NFL. It is not a commentary on Dalvin Cook.

The $4 million figure is chosen to keep the AAV below the top-10 salaries at the position. Why? Because of the teams that paid running backs top-10 money for the position, only one made the playoffs. That team was Houston, and that running back, Lamar Miller, missed the entire season. You can certainly disagree with my philosophy, but you can’t argue that I have sound reasoning for that philosophy.

Is Alexander Mattison as good as Dalvin Cook? No. He’s not as explosive, and he hasn’t yet proven to be a threat in the passing game. But is he good enough to be the top back for an effective NFL offense? Yes. Gary Kubiak has made a living out of coaching up offensive lines and getting the most out of running backs.

When you start handing out big money to running backs in today’s NFL, you almost always end up on the short end of the stick over the life of the contract. Mine is a commentary on the position, not Dalvin Cook. If he gets his money from the Vikings, I’ll remain a Dalvin Cook fan.
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 368

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:13 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:34 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:33 pm

yeah wasn't it Kapp who I highly respect talking the $4 million max. I thought you were saying that we should add $5million to what we were already offering and no IMO we shouldn't. Even with the Vikings holding all the leverage I don't see any way he signs for less than 10 million. If we aren't willing to go that high let's pack it in and trade him now.
Let me clarify my point once again.

My $4 million max is based on an overall philosophy that it’s not wise to pay big money to a position that has such a short shelf life and that rarely pays you back in the modern NFL. It is not a commentary on Dalvin Cook.

The $4 million figure is chosen to keep the AAV below the top-10 salaries at the position. Why? Because of the teams that paid running backs top-10 money for the position, only one made the playoffs. That team was Houston, and that running back, Lamar Miller, missed the entire season. You can certainly disagree with my philosophy, but you can’t argue that I have sound reasoning for that philosophy.

Is Alexander Mattison as good as Dalvin Cook? No. He’s not as explosive, and he hasn’t yet proven to be a threat in the passing game. But is he good enough to be the top back for an effective NFL offense? Yes. Gary Kubiak has made a living out of coaching up offensive lines and getting the most out of running backs.

When you start handing out big money to running backs in today’s NFL, you almost always end up on the short end of the stick over the life of the contract. Mine is a commentary on the position, not Dalvin Cook. If he gets his money from the Vikings, I’ll remain a Dalvin Cook fan.
What other teams have paid for RBs and what success they have had is completely irrelevant to what the Vikings should pay Dalvin. However, I agree it would be unwise to pay him big money. Anything over $10 million a year considering his track record would be too much. In the NFL $10 million or less is not big money.
0 x

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8068
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 726

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:02 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:13 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:34 am

Let me clarify my point once again.

My $4 million max is based on an overall philosophy that it’s not wise to pay big money to a position that has such a short shelf life and that rarely pays you back in the modern NFL. It is not a commentary on Dalvin Cook.

The $4 million figure is chosen to keep the AAV below the top-10 salaries at the position. Why? Because of the teams that paid running backs top-10 money for the position, only one made the playoffs. That team was Houston, and that running back, Lamar Miller, missed the entire season. You can certainly disagree with my philosophy, but you can’t argue that I have sound reasoning for that philosophy.

Is Alexander Mattison as good as Dalvin Cook? No. He’s not as explosive, and he hasn’t yet proven to be a threat in the passing game. But is he good enough to be the top back for an effective NFL offense? Yes. Gary Kubiak has made a living out of coaching up offensive lines and getting the most out of running backs.

When you start handing out big money to running backs in today’s NFL, you almost always end up on the short end of the stick over the life of the contract. Mine is a commentary on the position, not Dalvin Cook. If he gets his money from the Vikings, I’ll remain a Dalvin Cook fan.
What other teams have paid for RBs and what success they have had is completely irrelevant to what the Vikings should pay Dalvin. However, I agree it would be unwise to pay him big money. Anything over $10 million a year considering his track record would be too much. In the NFL $10 million or less is not big money.
Can’t agree with you, VV. In fact, I couldn’t disagree more.

The entire salary structure in the NFL is based on comparatives. It’s why a completely unproven Jimmy Garoppolo could get $128 million from San Francisco. It’s why the franchise tag system is based on a comparison of players at a particular position. It’s why corners get paid big money while safeties are the lowest paid position on defense.

But even if you totally reject that idea, think about this. At $10 million, Cook would earn 15 times the salary of Alexander Mattison. It’s not like you’d be making C.J. Ham your feature back. We’re talking Mattison, who averaged 4.6 YPC. Maybe he couldn’t match Cook’s production. But he could come close enough to be a better value at $675,000.

And for a running back, $10 million is huge money. Only four RBs in the entire NFL made $10 million last year, and three of those were Todd Gurley, Le’Veon Bell, and David Johnson ... tell me any of those were worth it.

Even with the season he had, I wouldn’t say that Dalvin Cook played well enough last year to warrant a $10 million salary. A lot of people here think the Vikings’ offense can’t function without Dalvin Cook, and that’s why we should pay him. Truth is, we pretty much operated without him after Week 8 last year. His production dropped off the map. Why? Injuries? Fatigue? Opponents adjusting?

Again, don’t get me wrong. I love Dalvin Cook, but love is an emotion. The Vikings have done too much of this over the years. If you want to have sustained success like New England, you have to start acting like New England. Bill Belichick has been ripped over the years for cutting beloved fan favorites who demand huge salaries. But nobody criticizes his results.

I know I’m in the distinct minority here. That’s fine. Often, the best move isn’t the most popular.
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 8933
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky
x 191

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by Cliff » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:51 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:02 am
Can’t agree with you, VV. In fact, I couldn’t disagree more.

The entire salary structure in the NFL is based on comparatives. It’s why a completely unproven Jimmy Garoppolo could get $128 million from San Francisco. It’s why the franchise tag system is based on a comparison of players at a particular position. It’s why corners get paid big money while safeties are the lowest paid position on defense.

But even if you totally reject that idea, think about this. At $10 million, Cook would earn 15 times the salary of Alexander Mattison. It’s not like you’d be making C.J. Ham your feature back. We’re talking Mattison, who averaged 4.6 YPC. Maybe he couldn’t match Cook’s production. But he could come close enough to be a better value at $675,000.

And for a running back, $10 million is huge money. Only four RBs in the entire NFL made $10 million last year, and three of those were Todd Gurley, Le’Veon Bell, and David Johnson ... tell me any of those were worth it.

Even with the season he had, I wouldn’t say that Dalvin Cook played well enough last year to warrant a $10 million salary. A lot of people here think the Vikings’ offense can’t function without Dalvin Cook, and that’s why we should pay him. Truth is, we pretty much operated without him after Week 8 last year. His production dropped off the map. Why? Injuries? Fatigue? Opponents adjusting?

Again, don’t get me wrong. I love Dalvin Cook, but love is an emotion. The Vikings have done too much of this over the years. If you want to have sustained success like New England, you have to start acting like New England. Bill Belichick has been ripped over the years for cutting beloved fan favorites who demand huge salaries. But nobody criticizes his results.

I know I’m in the distinct minority here. That’s fine. Often, the best move isn’t the most popular.
I agree with your main idea that it is important to look around the league and see what works and what doesn't. Though I do think when deciding whether or not to give a player "top of the salary range for his position" money is more situational.

For the Vikings I think Cook is even more important than a running back normally would be. Not only because he's a good RB on a team that likes to establish the run. In addition, I think he helps clean up one of Cousin's weaknesses which is his tendency to panic and dump off to his closest receiver when under pressure. Regardless of the situation that receiver is in. This isn't trying to dog Cousins, he's got lots of good qualities as well, but after watching him I feel that is probably his biggest weakness (being a bit panicky).

Cook is generally able to take those passes and make something happen with them. Extending drives, putting the offense in better position for the next play, or sometimes making one or two people miss and picking up a big gain. Mattison doesn't have that ability though he's a very solid RB. Most RB's don't have that ability.

Anyway, Cook's specific skill set as an RB is more important to the Vikings than it would be many other teams. As such, I can agree with the idea of giving him a "top 5" RB contract. He already arguably is a top 5 RB without considering how key he is for the Vikings specifically.

As far as him dropping off the map after week 8 ... I only have enough time to check one game but in week 9 he picked up 71 yards on the ground and 45 receiving yards. His 116 total yards easily beating out the next closet runner/receiver (Treadwell with 58 yards). In other words, he was the biggest contributor to the offence other than QB.
1 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 368

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:44 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:02 am
VikingsVictorious wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:13 am

What other teams have paid for RBs and what success they have had is completely irrelevant to what the Vikings should pay Dalvin. However, I agree it would be unwise to pay him big money. Anything over $10 million a year considering his track record would be too much. In the NFL $10 million or less is not big money.
Can’t agree with you, VV. In fact, I couldn’t disagree more.

The entire salary structure in the NFL is based on comparatives. It’s why a completely unproven Jimmy Garoppolo could get $128 million from San Francisco. It’s why the franchise tag system is based on a comparison of players at a particular position. It’s why corners get paid big money while safeties are the lowest paid position on defense.

But even if you totally reject that idea, think about this. At $10 million, Cook would earn 15 times the salary of Alexander Mattison. It’s not like you’d be making C.J. Ham your feature back. We’re talking Mattison, who averaged 4.6 YPC. Maybe he couldn’t match Cook’s production. But he could come close enough to be a better value at $675,000.

And for a running back, $10 million is huge money. Only four RBs in the entire NFL made $10 million last year, and three of those were Todd Gurley, Le’Veon Bell, and David Johnson ... tell me any of those were worth it.

Even with the season he had, I wouldn’t say that Dalvin Cook played well enough last year to warrant a $10 million salary. A lot of people here think the Vikings’ offense can’t function without Dalvin Cook, and that’s why we should pay him. Truth is, we pretty much operated without him after Week 8 last year. His production dropped off the map. Why? Injuries? Fatigue? Opponents adjusting?

Again, don’t get me wrong. I love Dalvin Cook, but love is an emotion. The Vikings have done too much of this over the years. If you want to have sustained success like New England, you have to start acting like New England. Bill Belichick has been ripped over the years for cutting beloved fan favorites who demand huge salaries. But nobody criticizes his results.

I know I’m in the distinct minority here. That’s fine. Often, the best move isn’t the most popular.
Those other RBs better or worse aren't Dalvin. He should be paid based on his own skills. When Mattison completes his rookie deal he will get paid also. 10 Million for a top player in the NFL ain't diddlysquat. It's what's reasonable for Dalvin. We would be foolish to pay more and we would be foolish to offer less. That is the number.
0 x

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8068
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 726

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:37 am

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:44 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:02 am

Can’t agree with you, VV. In fact, I couldn’t disagree more.

The entire salary structure in the NFL is based on comparatives. It’s why a completely unproven Jimmy Garoppolo could get $128 million from San Francisco. It’s why the franchise tag system is based on a comparison of players at a particular position. It’s why corners get paid big money while safeties are the lowest paid position on defense.

But even if you totally reject that idea, think about this. At $10 million, Cook would earn 15 times the salary of Alexander Mattison. It’s not like you’d be making C.J. Ham your feature back. We’re talking Mattison, who averaged 4.6 YPC. Maybe he couldn’t match Cook’s production. But he could come close enough to be a better value at $675,000.

And for a running back, $10 million is huge money. Only four RBs in the entire NFL made $10 million last year, and three of those were Todd Gurley, Le’Veon Bell, and David Johnson ... tell me any of those were worth it.

Even with the season he had, I wouldn’t say that Dalvin Cook played well enough last year to warrant a $10 million salary. A lot of people here think the Vikings’ offense can’t function without Dalvin Cook, and that’s why we should pay him. Truth is, we pretty much operated without him after Week 8 last year. His production dropped off the map. Why? Injuries? Fatigue? Opponents adjusting?

Again, don’t get me wrong. I love Dalvin Cook, but love is an emotion. The Vikings have done too much of this over the years. If you want to have sustained success like New England, you have to start acting like New England. Bill Belichick has been ripped over the years for cutting beloved fan favorites who demand huge salaries. But nobody criticizes his results.

I know I’m in the distinct minority here. That’s fine. Often, the best move isn’t the most popular.
Those other RBs better or worse aren't Dalvin. He should be paid based on his own skills. When Mattison completes his rookie deal he will get paid also. 10 Million for a top player in the NFL ain't diddlysquat. It's what's reasonable for Dalvin. We would be foolish to pay more and we would be foolish to offer less. That is the number.
You’re right. Those other backs aren’t Dalvin Cook.

They had accomplished far more than Cook when they signed their deals.
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8068
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 726

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:55 am

Cliff wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:51 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:02 am
Can’t agree with you, VV. In fact, I couldn’t disagree more.

The entire salary structure in the NFL is based on comparatives. It’s why a completely unproven Jimmy Garoppolo could get $128 million from San Francisco. It’s why the franchise tag system is based on a comparison of players at a particular position. It’s why corners get paid big money while safeties are the lowest paid position on defense.

But even if you totally reject that idea, think about this. At $10 million, Cook would earn 15 times the salary of Alexander Mattison. It’s not like you’d be making C.J. Ham your feature back. We’re talking Mattison, who averaged 4.6 YPC. Maybe he couldn’t match Cook’s production. But he could come close enough to be a better value at $675,000.

And for a running back, $10 million is huge money. Only four RBs in the entire NFL made $10 million last year, and three of those were Todd Gurley, Le’Veon Bell, and David Johnson ... tell me any of those were worth it.

Even with the season he had, I wouldn’t say that Dalvin Cook played well enough last year to warrant a $10 million salary. A lot of people here think the Vikings’ offense can’t function without Dalvin Cook, and that’s why we should pay him. Truth is, we pretty much operated without him after Week 8 last year. His production dropped off the map. Why? Injuries? Fatigue? Opponents adjusting?

Again, don’t get me wrong. I love Dalvin Cook, but love is an emotion. The Vikings have done too much of this over the years. If you want to have sustained success like New England, you have to start acting like New England. Bill Belichick has been ripped over the years for cutting beloved fan favorites who demand huge salaries. But nobody criticizes his results.

I know I’m in the distinct minority here. That’s fine. Often, the best move isn’t the most popular.
I agree with your main idea that it is important to look around the league and see what works and what doesn't. Though I do think when deciding whether or not to give a player "top of the salary range for his position" money is more situational.

For the Vikings I think Cook is even more important than a running back normally would be. Not only because he's a good RB on a team that likes to establish the run. In addition, I think he helps clean up one of Cousin's weaknesses which is his tendency to panic and dump off to his closest receiver when under pressure. Regardless of the situation that receiver is in. This isn't trying to dog Cousins, he's got lots of good qualities as well, but after watching him I feel that is probably his biggest weakness (being a bit panicky).

Cook is generally able to take those passes and make something happen with them. Extending drives, putting the offense in better position for the next play, or sometimes making one or two people miss and picking up a big gain. Mattison doesn't have that ability though he's a very solid RB. Most RB's don't have that ability.

Anyway, Cook's specific skill set as an RB is more important to the Vikings than it would be many other teams. As such, I can agree with the idea of giving him a "top 5" RB contract. He already arguably is a top 5 RB without considering how key he is for the Vikings specifically.

As far as him dropping off the map after week 8 ... I only have enough time to check one game but in week 9 he picked up 71 yards on the ground and 45 receiving yards. His 116 total yards easily beating out the next closet runner/receiver (Treadwell with 58 yards). In other words, he was the biggest contributor to the offence other than QB.
I don’t totally agree with the specific skill set argument, but it’s the best argument for overpaying to extend him. My belief is that Gary Kubiak could get 1,000 yards out of just about anyone, but there’s no way to prove that.

As for his season:

First 8 games
153 carries, 823 yards, 5.3 avg, 9 TD
29 rec, 293 yards, 10.1 avg, 0 TD

Final 8 games (two of which he missed due to injury)
94 carries, 312 yards, 3.3 avg, 4 TD
24 rec, 226 yards, 9.4 avg, 0 TD

Two playoff games
37 carries, 112 yards, 3.0 avg, 2 TD
9 rec, 44 yards, 4.9 avg, 0 TD

First-half Dalvin Cook is worth far more than second-half. Which will we get?
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 8933
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky
x 191

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by Cliff » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:41 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:55 am
I don’t totally agree with the specific skill set argument, but it’s the best argument for overpaying to extend him. My belief is that Gary Kubiak could get 1,000 yards out of just about anyone, but there’s no way to prove that.
Yeah, but Cook's rushing yards are only a part of the story. His help in the passing game is really important to the offense. Maybe even moreso than his rushing. With Diggs gone he'll be even more important, in my opinion.
As for his season:

First 8 games
153 carries, 823 yards, 5.3 avg, 9 TD
29 rec, 293 yards, 10.1 avg, 0 TD

Final 8 games (two of which he missed due to injury)
94 carries, 312 yards, 3.3 avg, 4 TD
24 rec, 226 yards, 9.4 avg, 0 TD

Two playoff games
37 carries, 112 yards, 3.0 avg, 2 TD
9 rec, 44 yards, 4.9 avg, 0 TD

First-half Dalvin Cook is worth far more than second-half. Which will we get?
Injuries are a concern, no doubt, and that should (and likely will) impact the amount of money he'll get. It'll boil down to what the team thinks about his health. They've got the most insight, of course.

Still, I really think the offense as it stands is needs him. I think Cousins needs a back like him to be at his more effective as well.
0 x

User avatar
VikingsVictorious
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 368

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by VikingsVictorious » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:21 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:55 am
Cliff wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:51 am


I agree with your main idea that it is important to look around the league and see what works and what doesn't. Though I do think when deciding whether or not to give a player "top of the salary range for his position" money is more situational.

For the Vikings I think Cook is even more important than a running back normally would be. Not only because he's a good RB on a team that likes to establish the run. In addition, I think he helps clean up one of Cousin's weaknesses which is his tendency to panic and dump off to his closest receiver when under pressure. Regardless of the situation that receiver is in. This isn't trying to dog Cousins, he's got lots of good qualities as well, but after watching him I feel that is probably his biggest weakness (being a bit panicky).

Cook is generally able to take those passes and make something happen with them. Extending drives, putting the offense in better position for the next play, or sometimes making one or two people miss and picking up a big gain. Mattison doesn't have that ability though he's a very solid RB. Most RB's don't have that ability.

Anyway, Cook's specific skill set as an RB is more important to the Vikings than it would be many other teams. As such, I can agree with the idea of giving him a "top 5" RB contract. He already arguably is a top 5 RB without considering how key he is for the Vikings specifically.

As far as him dropping off the map after week 8 ... I only have enough time to check one game but in week 9 he picked up 71 yards on the ground and 45 receiving yards. His 116 total yards easily beating out the next closet runner/receiver (Treadwell with 58 yards). In other words, he was the biggest contributor to the offence other than QB.
I don’t totally agree with the specific skill set argument, but it’s the best argument for overpaying to extend him. My belief is that Gary Kubiak could get 1,000 yards out of just about anyone, but there’s no way to prove that.

As for his season:

First 8 games
153 carries, 823 yards, 5.3 avg, 9 TD
29 rec, 293 yards, 10.1 avg, 0 TD

Final 8 games (two of which he missed due to injury)
94 carries, 312 yards, 3.3 avg, 4 TD
24 rec, 226 yards, 9.4 avg, 0 TD

Two playoff games
37 carries, 112 yards, 3.0 avg, 2 TD
9 rec, 44 yards, 4.9 avg, 0 TD

First-half Dalvin Cook is worth far more than second-half. Which will we get?
His game did fall off the second half of the season no question. I believe he only missed one game to injury and another due to the Vikings sitting all the starters. He was available to us 15 out of 16 games.
0 x

User avatar
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8068
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 726

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:05 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:21 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:55 am

I don’t totally agree with the specific skill set argument, but it’s the best argument for overpaying to extend him. My belief is that Gary Kubiak could get 1,000 yards out of just about anyone, but there’s no way to prove that.

As for his season:

First 8 games
153 carries, 823 yards, 5.3 avg, 9 TD
29 rec, 293 yards, 10.1 avg, 0 TD

Final 8 games (two of which he missed due to injury)
94 carries, 312 yards, 3.3 avg, 4 TD
24 rec, 226 yards, 9.4 avg, 0 TD

Two playoff games
37 carries, 112 yards, 3.0 avg, 2 TD
9 rec, 44 yards, 4.9 avg, 0 TD

First-half Dalvin Cook is worth far more than second-half. Which will we get?
His game did fall off the second half of the season no question. I believe he only missed one game to injury and another due to the Vikings sitting all the starters. He was available to us 15 out of 16 games.
There’s no way to verify he was actually available against Chicago because he’d sat out the previous game with injury and didn’t suit up against the Bears.

He left early in the third quarter against Seattle with a shoulder injury, played the next week against Detroit, left early in the third after re-injuring the shoulder against the Chargers, then sat out against Green Bay and Chicago.

So the fact is that Cook was available for one full game in the last five.
0 x
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.

User avatar
Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 8933
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky
x 191

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by Cliff » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:37 pm

It wasn't really after week 8, not sure why anybody would start there. He was the best offensive weapon on the team in weeks 9 and 10.

Honestly I think he was actually injured after the Cowboys game in week 10. Only 11 carries in week 11 was really out of character for the team.

Week 11 he only had 11 attempts 2.4 yards. Rushing game never really got going. He still caught 5 passes for 31 yards
Week 12 was a bye.
Week 13 only 9 attempts. Injury to shoulder reported in this game, I believe. Even so, he still had the most all purpose yards on the team (64).
Week 14 he had 18 attempts for 62 yards and nearly split carries with Mattison who had 14 for 46. He also had 2 passes for 13 yards. He had the second most yards on the team behind Diggs who got 92 yards that game.
Week 15 he went out early and didn't make a significant impact
Week 16 he was out (Cousins goes 16/31 for 122 yards 1TD/1INT - Mike Boone gets 2.5 YPC in 11 attempts)
Week 17 starters sat, no useful information

From week to 11 to 17 (5 possible games discounting Bye and 17). Though his output was low he still mostly performed well compared to the rest of the team.

1 game he was out completely, 1 game he left early, 1 game (Week 11) he had limited impact, and 2 games he was 1st or 2nd in yards on the team.

In other words, 3 games in that stretch Cook didn't make an impact for the team. In the game he was completely out the team got stomped.
0 x

User avatar
S197
Fenrir
Posts: 12173
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Hawaii
x 373

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by S197 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:03 pm

Cliff is correct, he injured himself in the Cowboys game. He played through it for a few games but wasn't 100%.

Also Mattison hasn't been the healthiest either. Both he and Cook were injured. I know this because I handcuffed Cook with Mattison and it did absolutely nothing for me :lol:
0 x

User avatar
Passepartout
Practice Squad
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:33 pm
x 4

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by Passepartout » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:49 pm

When you hold out, you hurt yourself with the team and that of chemistry. People should learn that by now.
0 x
Happy Fourth of July Day 2020!!

User avatar
RandyMoss84
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:12 pm
x 290

Re: Ruh-Roh, Cook Plans to Hold Out?

Post by RandyMoss84 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:09 pm

Passepartout wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:49 pm
When you hold out, you hurt yourself with the team and that of chemistry. People should learn that by now.
So if a crappy player holds out, it hurts himself and the chemistry? That is news to me
0 x