Teddy Bridgewater

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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:43 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:06 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:03 pm


and this is where I wish you would learn....



Nope that's not what I said. This is what I said:



I was simply saying I thought we matched up well with them and we play better when we're underdogs.




Cousins had better WRs for 9 games out of 15.

Again, Peterson was also the best back in the NFL that year. So maybe Cook helped in the passing game more but from a pure RB standpoint, Peterson was the better back.

A QB passing out of formations that fit his strength? I wish I could find a stat but I can bet money that Cousins was under center just as much or more than Teddy was in 2015. All I did the entire season was complain about being under center so much with Cousins. We were under center quite often this year.

First season or 12th season, Cousins was and still is a better QB than Teddy and I dont think there is any arguing it.
But Cousins wasn't this season. Yards and TDs, Teddy had him. Wins Teddy had him. GWD, Teddy had him. :wink:
That’s your speculation talking. Which proves absolutely nothing. So if fantasy land makes you think that teddy is somehow better than cousins, so be it. But you aren’t changing anyone else’s mind and never will with that argument.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by TSonn » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:05 pm

I'd definitely rather have Kirk as our QB but there is something intriguing and special about Teddy. Seems like he just wins. Wish he hadn't gotten hurt but alternate universe TSonn watched him win the Superbowl with the Vikes in 2017 so that's cool.
Last edited by TSonn on Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Maelstrom88 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:23 pm

Cousins>>>Teddy>>Case Keesum :beerock:
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:27 pm

TSonn wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:05 pm
I'd definitely rather have Kirk as our QB but there is something intriguing and special about Teddy. Seems like he just wins. Wish he hadn't gotten hurt but ultimate universe TSonn watched him win the Superbowl with the Vikes in 2017 so that's cool.
lol I’ve had plenty of ultimate universe moments as well
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:10 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:33 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:47 pm


Moss clearly wanted out of Oakland. The guy had 200 fewer yards than some guy named Ronald Curry. That is why Oakland dumped him.
You’re completely missing the point. What does him wanting out of Oakland have anything to do with anything? The point is, he was elite in Minnesota, disappeared in Oakland mainly in year 2 to the point where some wondered if his career was on a down slide and then absolutely went off in New England and broke records. Why did he struggle in Oakland? Not because he wanted out. Because his quarterbacks were aaron Brooks and Andrew Walters. His YPC was way down compared to normal. Similar to someone like Wallace who had the lowest yards per catch of his career in Minnesota. These are two receivers, not comparing talent levels but comparing skill sets, that were considered two of the best deep threats of their time. And they had a drastic dip in play when they were with below average QBs but somehow had success everywhere else. There was a reason for that. Moss and Wallace didn’t just crap the bed. If you’re a good WR, you’re a good WR but you can’t perform at a high level if your QB isn’t getting you the ball.

If Wallace had the poor year he did in 2015 and then continued poor play on other teams, you’d have an argument because you could easily say he hit his peak and then his career tailed off when he hit his late 20’s/early 30’s. You could claim he was past his prime in Minnesota. The same reason fans were thinking moss could be done in Oakland. But given they still had success on other teams. Quite a bit of success no less, then you have no argument. Wallace wasn’t the problem in the passing game. Teddy was. I just don’t get how anyone can defend a guy that quarterbacked the 31st ranked passing offense?? It literally blows my mind. The amount of excuses and manipulating some go through to make it sound like he was a good QB just baffles me. I don’t think I will ever understand it either.
Come on man. Moss doesn't get outplayed by some scrub unless he is giving 50% and intentionally trying to get cut or traded. He didn't want to be in Oakland, Wallace didn't want to be in MN.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by 808vikingsfan » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:17 pm

I won't get into stats because I think they don't mean much.

What I do know is Teddy has poise, pocket presence, able to improvise, and has a much stronger arm than he did in 2015. I don't get why it's wrong to think he had a chance to have a really good year in 2016. Another year of experience under his belt, he works hard, studies hard, he bulked up and got stronger, he was doing great in camp. No sense in arguing. I'll never say Teddy is a better passer than Cousins, but I do think he's the better overall package. People are going to think what they think. I for one, would take Bridgewater over Cousins in a second. Will be cheering for him to do well.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:53 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:10 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:33 pm


You’re completely missing the point. What does him wanting out of Oakland have anything to do with anything? The point is, he was elite in Minnesota, disappeared in Oakland mainly in year 2 to the point where some wondered if his career was on a down slide and then absolutely went off in New England and broke records. Why did he struggle in Oakland? Not because he wanted out. Because his quarterbacks were aaron Brooks and Andrew Walters. His YPC was way down compared to normal. Similar to someone like Wallace who had the lowest yards per catch of his career in Minnesota. These are two receivers, not comparing talent levels but comparing skill sets, that were considered two of the best deep threats of their time. And they had a drastic dip in play when they were with below average QBs but somehow had success everywhere else. There was a reason for that. Moss and Wallace didn’t just crap the bed. If you’re a good WR, you’re a good WR but you can’t perform at a high level if your QB isn’t getting you the ball.

If Wallace had the poor year he did in 2015 and then continued poor play on other teams, you’d have an argument because you could easily say he hit his peak and then his career tailed off when he hit his late 20’s/early 30’s. You could claim he was past his prime in Minnesota. The same reason fans were thinking moss could be done in Oakland. But given they still had success on other teams. Quite a bit of success no less, then you have no argument. Wallace wasn’t the problem in the passing game. Teddy was. I just don’t get how anyone can defend a guy that quarterbacked the 31st ranked passing offense?? It literally blows my mind. The amount of excuses and manipulating some go through to make it sound like he was a good QB just baffles me. I don’t think I will ever understand it either.
Come on man. Moss doesn't get outplayed by some scrub unless he is giving 50% and intentionally trying to get cut or traded. He didn't want to be in Oakland, Wallace didn't want to be in MN.
Wallace had no problem being in Minnesota until he realized his QB couldn’t get him the ball. But if they didn’t want to be in Minnesota or Oakland, what do you think the reasoning behind that would be? Did you ever think it was because they didn’t have very good quarterbacks? Or that they just didn’t like the city? They knew their careers weren’t going anywhere with who they had at the helm. Again, you’re defending someone who was at the helm of the 31st ranked pass offense. You’re basing your argument off of “what if’s”. And it carries zero weight
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:15 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:17 pm
I won't get into stats because I think they don't mean much.

What I do know is Teddy has poise, pocket presence, able to improvise, and has a much stronger arm than he did in 2015. I don't get why it's wrong to think he had a chance to have a really good year in 2016. Another year of experience under his belt, he works hard, studies hard, he bulked up and got stronger, he was doing great in camp. No sense in arguing. I'll never say Teddy is a better passer than Cousins, but I do think he's the better overall package. People are going to think what they think. I for one, would take Bridgewater over Cousins in a second. Will be cheering for him to do well.
Mason Rudolph was at the helm of the 31st ranked passing offense this year. Do we think he’s a better overall package than cousins too? It just seems like everyone likes teddy because he’s a nice guy so they feel like they have to defend his below average play.

I mean when he doesn’t improve from year 1 to year 2, it’s pretty hard to think he would do much different in year 3. I guess I don’t understand how anyone can think he was going to have a good year 3 when he was showing little growth. No less in 2016, he wouldn’t have had a RB to carry him through the year. And at the rate he was going and what he did to Wallace, I don’t think you would’ve seen near the emergence of Thielen like we did with Bradford. Things could’ve very well been different. Regardless, sitting here speculating what he “would’ve been” proves nothing and we’re just splitting hairs. Bottom line is, he has a chance to prove himself this year in Carolina and maybe we can actually get a 16 game sample size. We’ll see how good he really is, even though he’ll once again have a RB carrying every bit of weight there is on that offense. And I’m guessing the WRs, TE and OL will be the ones to blame if he ends up flopping. But I’m sure we’ll have the discussion again at years end
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by fiestavike » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:25 am

People evaluate things differently, and in many ways, Cousins and Bridgewater are in stark contrast. One's areas of strength seem to be precisely the other's area of weakness. Cousins style of play is apt to put up more yards and touchdowns. It might also be less valuable in terms of winning it all. Cousins might be the Run and Shoot offense in this analogy. At this point, the question is how best to win with Kirk, or how best to replace him.

Another analogy: He's a boxer who is good going forward, and terrible when going backward. Is it possible to build a team good enough that he doesn't have to go backward, even when going against the best defensive units in the business? I'm not sure. That's what it's going to take to get peak Kirk Cousins, so either we try, or we trade him after this year. So far, there hasn't been much in the offseason to indicate that we are trying to build that front, so we'll see what happens in the draft. The worst possible course of action is to commit to Kirk and then put him in position where he has to play well 'going backward'. It's never going to happen. That's not who he is.

I actually think the combat sport analogy is very helpful. There are guys who look like they are going to be great. They have all the tools, they are blowing through opponents, but then they find a guy who doesn't back up, who is able to get them on their heels, and suddenly they have no answer. It might just be some journeyman 'stepping stone' who ends up being too much for them. They can't fight from that position at all.

I see Teddy as sort of a potential Pernell Whitaker type guy. His tools aren't flashy. He isn't knocking guys out. But he wins, and its hard to hit him. Fans might not love his fights, especially casual fans. the fights are too defensive. There aren't enough fireworks, but he does enough and in the right moments, and he's damn hard to beat. Fans have always been pretty oblivious to things like minimizing disastrous plays...it doesn't show up as much in the stat sheet. It might just be an incomplete pass, (or a 3 yard loss instead of a 10 yard loss), but that might be an incomplete pass that allows the play 2 plays down the road to be a first down. Honestly, that kind of thing is just something most people don't see, or notice, or appreciate, but it's very important when it comes to playing winning, complimentary football. That's being able to play well even when you are forced onto your back foot, and to win a championship, that's more important than just being able to play well when going forward, IMO.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:36 am

fiestavike wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:25 am
People evaluate things differently, and in many ways, Cousins and Bridgewater are in stark contrast. One's areas of strength seem to be precisely the other's area of weakness. Cousins style of play is apt to put up more yards and touchdowns. It might also be less valuable in terms of winning it all. Cousins might be the Run and Shoot offense in this analogy. At this point, the question is how best to win with Kirk, or how best to replace him.

Another analogy: He's a boxer who is good going forward, and terrible when going backward. Is it possible to build a team good enough that he doesn't have to go backward, even when going against the best defensive units in the business? I'm not sure. That's what it's going to take to get peak Kirk Cousins, so either we try, or we trade him after this year. So far, there hasn't been much in the offseason to indicate that we are trying to build that front, so we'll see what happens in the draft. The worst possible course of action is to commit to Kirk and then put him in position where he has to play well 'going backward'. It's never going to happen. That's not who he is.

I actually think the combat sport analogy is very helpful. There are guys who look like they are going to be great. They have all the tools, they are blowing through opponents, but then they find a guy who doesn't back up, who is able to get them on their heels, and suddenly they have no answer. It might just be some journeyman 'stepping stone' who ends up being too much for them. They can't fight from that position at all.

I see Teddy as sort of a potential Pernell Whitaker type guy. His tools aren't flashy. He isn't knocking guys out. But he wins, and its hard to hit him. Fans might not love his fights, especially casual fans. the fights are too defensive. There aren't enough fireworks, but he does enough and in the right moments, and he's damn hard to beat. Fans have always been pretty oblivious to things like minimizing disastrous plays...it doesn't show up as much in the stat sheet. It might just be an incomplete pass, (or a 3 yard loss instead of a 10 yard loss), but that might be an incomplete pass that allows the play 2 plays down the road to be a first down. Honestly, that kind of thing is just something most people don't see, or notice, or appreciate, but it's very important when it comes to playing winning, complimentary football. That's being able to play well even when you are forced onto your back foot, and to win a championship, that's more important than just being able to play well when going forward, IMO.
Teddy has never even won a playoff game and we’re saying we can see him win a championship? I don’t know this whole post was a little confusing. I see someone like Derek Carr winning a SB before Teddy. But again, what the argument has been 99% of the time regarding teddy, all speculation
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:46 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:15 am
808vikingsfan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:17 pm
I won't get into stats because I think they don't mean much.

What I do know is Teddy has poise, pocket presence, able to improvise, and has a much stronger arm than he did in 2015. I don't get why it's wrong to think he had a chance to have a really good year in 2016. Another year of experience under his belt, he works hard, studies hard, he bulked up and got stronger, he was doing great in camp. No sense in arguing. I'll never say Teddy is a better passer than Cousins, but I do think he's the better overall package. People are going to think what they think. I for one, would take Bridgewater over Cousins in a second. Will be cheering for him to do well.
Mason Rudolph was at the helm of the 31st ranked passing offense this year. Do we think he’s a better overall package than cousins too? It just seems like everyone likes teddy because he’s a nice guy so they feel like they have to defend his below average play.

I mean when he doesn’t improve from year 1 to year 2, it’s pretty hard to think he would do much different in year 3. I guess I don’t understand how anyone can think he was going to have a good year 3 when he was showing little growth. No less in 2016, he wouldn’t have had a RB to carry him through the year. And at the rate he was going and what he did to Wallace, I don’t think you would’ve seen near the emergence of Thielen like we did with Bradford. Things could’ve very well been different. Regardless, sitting here speculating what he “would’ve been” proves nothing and we’re just splitting hairs. Bottom line is, he has a chance to prove himself this year in Carolina and maybe we can actually get a 16 game sample size. We’ll see how good he really is, even though he’ll once again have a RB carrying every bit of weight there is on that offense. And I’m guessing the WRs, TE and OL will be the ones to blame if he ends up flopping. But I’m sure we’ll have the discussion again at years end
I was very close to agreeing with you and then you put this part. That feels like you might be hedging your bet a bit. He took over the worst passing offense in the NFL(mostly because of their QBs). If he has success it isn't like he took over an offense that made Case Keenum look like an MVP. If he doesn't, it isn't like his offense is as detrimental to the passing game as that 2015 Vikings one, and it will be clear the injury took its toll on him. :D
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:15 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:46 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:15 am


Mason Rudolph was at the helm of the 31st ranked passing offense this year. Do we think he’s a better overall package than cousins too? It just seems like everyone likes teddy because he’s a nice guy so they feel like they have to defend his below average play.

I mean when he doesn’t improve from year 1 to year 2, it’s pretty hard to think he would do much different in year 3. I guess I don’t understand how anyone can think he was going to have a good year 3 when he was showing little growth. No less in 2016, he wouldn’t have had a RB to carry him through the year. And at the rate he was going and what he did to Wallace, I don’t think you would’ve seen near the emergence of Thielen like we did with Bradford. Things could’ve very well been different. Regardless, sitting here speculating what he “would’ve been” proves nothing and we’re just splitting hairs. Bottom line is, he has a chance to prove himself this year in Carolina and maybe we can actually get a 16 game sample size. We’ll see how good he really is, even though he’ll once again have a RB carrying every bit of weight there is on that offense. And I’m guessing the WRs, TE and OL will be the ones to blame if he ends up flopping. But I’m sure we’ll have the discussion again at years end
I was very close to agreeing with you and then you put this part. That feels like you might be hedging your bet a bit. He took over the worst passing offense in the NFL(mostly because of their QBs). If he has success it isn't like he took over an offense that made Case Keenum look like an MVP. If he doesn't, it isn't like his offense is as detrimental to the passing game as that 2015 Vikings one, and it will be clear the injury took its toll on him. :D
Was Carolina not 20th in passing offense in 2019? Far from the worst passing offense. And Carolina has arguably the best all around RB in the nfl. Their WRs are pretty good. So he definitely has the tools to work with, not the worst passing offense in the nfl.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:41 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:15 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:46 am


I was very close to agreeing with you and then you put this part. That feels like you might be hedging your bet a bit. He took over the worst passing offense in the NFL(mostly because of their QBs). If he has success it isn't like he took over an offense that made Case Keenum look like an MVP. If he doesn't, it isn't like his offense is as detrimental to the passing game as that 2015 Vikings one, and it will be clear the injury took its toll on him. :D
Was Carolina not 20th in passing offense in 2019? Far from the worst passing offense. And Carolina has arguably the best all around RB in the nfl. Their WRs are pretty good. So he definitely has the tools to work with, not the worst passing offense in the nfl.
By that logic, the Viking were 22nd best passing offense and worse than Carolina. Want to dig a little deeper on that one or are you really comfortable claiming Kirk Cousins' passing attack was worse than Kyle Allen/Will Grier's?

Maybe yardage numbers in and of themselves don't even come close to telling the whole story.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:52 am

fiestavike wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:25 am
People evaluate things differently, and in many ways, Cousins and Bridgewater are in stark contrast. One's areas of strength seem to be precisely the other's area of weakness. Cousins style of play is apt to put up more yards and touchdowns. It might also be less valuable in terms of winning it all. Cousins might be the Run and Shoot offense in this analogy. At this point, the question is how best to win with Kirk, or how best to replace him.

Another analogy: He's a boxer who is good going forward, and terrible when going backward. Is it possible to build a team good enough that he doesn't have to go backward, even when going against the best defensive units in the business? I'm not sure. That's what it's going to take to get peak Kirk Cousins, so either we try, or we trade him after this year. So far, there hasn't been much in the offseason to indicate that we are trying to build that front, so we'll see what happens in the draft. The worst possible course of action is to commit to Kirk and then put him in position where he has to play well 'going backward'. It's never going to happen. That's not who he is.

I actually think the combat sport analogy is very helpful. There are guys who look like they are going to be great. They have all the tools, they are blowing through opponents, but then they find a guy who doesn't back up, who is able to get them on their heels, and suddenly they have no answer. It might just be some journeyman 'stepping stone' who ends up being too much for them. They can't fight from that position at all.

I see Teddy as sort of a potential Pernell Whitaker type guy. His tools aren't flashy. He isn't knocking guys out. But he wins, and its hard to hit him. Fans might not love his fights, especially casual fans. the fights are too defensive. There aren't enough fireworks, but he does enough and in the right moments, and he's damn hard to beat. Fans have always been pretty oblivious to things like minimizing disastrous plays...it doesn't show up as much in the stat sheet. It might just be an incomplete pass, (or a 3 yard loss instead of a 10 yard loss), but that might be an incomplete pass that allows the play 2 plays down the road to be a first down. Honestly, that kind of thing is just something most people don't see, or notice, or appreciate, but it's very important when it comes to playing winning, complimentary football. That's being able to play well even when you are forced onto your back foot, and to win a championship, that's more important than just being able to play well when going forward, IMO.
I don't care what anybody thinks of Teddy Bridgewater or Kirk Cousins. This is a smart post. The Pernell Whitaker take is spot-on. Great fighter, never conjured up images of Sugar Ray Leonard. He just won.

Not everything is measured in numbers. In this day of uber-statistics, that's hard for a lot of people to grasp, but it's pretty easy for me to see that when the pressure's on, Kirk Cousins shrinks from the moment. People point to the playoff win over New Orleans. Yes, that was one for the ages, and I was singing his praises after that win. But was that the highest-pressure situation in which he's won in Minnesota? Tie game and the first possession of overtime? What happens to Cousins when he HAS to deliver or the Vikings LOSE? Thus far in Minnesota, there's been one game, against a 7-9 Denver team, where that was the case and he came through. But even in THAT game, the winning touchdown came with 6:10 to play. He did tie the game late against Green Bay in 2018. Credit for that. But other times, when we NEED a drive, we don't get a drive. Seattle this year was a great example. Red hot throughout the fourth to get us back in the game, then disappears on the final drive. And mind you, I'm a Cousins SUPPORTER.

Am I saying Teddy is better? No. Because honestly, who knows how good Teddy really is? He's started 5 games since 2015. But to hold up Kirk Cousins as the vastly superior quarterback simply because his numbers are better? Not this guy. I pretty much know what Cousins is ... a guy who will succeed if everything is right, if everything is moving forward, as fiestavike says. Teddy? Who knows? He's 16-5 in his last 21 starts. That HAS to mean SOMETHING.

I wish Teddy well. He's finally getting his chance after 5 painful years.
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Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:41 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:15 am


Was Carolina not 20th in passing offense in 2019? Far from the worst passing offense. And Carolina has arguably the best all around RB in the nfl. Their WRs are pretty good. So he definitely has the tools to work with, not the worst passing offense in the nfl.
By that logic, the Viking were 22nd best passing offense and worse than Carolina. Want to dig a little deeper on that one or are you really comfortable claiming Kirk Cousins' passing attack was worse than Kyle Allen/Will Grier's?

Maybe yardage numbers in and of themselves don't even come close to telling the whole story.
If you’re going to sit there and claim they are the “worst passing offense in the nfl” then back it up. Because I don’t see them being dead last in many categories. But I know exactly why you’re saying it.
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