Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:15 pm

Raptorman wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:00 pm
Top ten QB's in pay this year and their records for 2018-19. Sorted by best win percentage.

Code: Select all

                                 W       L       T    Total     Win %
1	Drew Brees	$25.00 	15	 2	0	17	0.882
2	Jimmy Garoppolo	$27.50 	 8	 2	0	10	0.800
3	Jared Goff	$33.50 	18	 6	0	24	0.750
4	Russell Wilson	$35 	17	 8	0	25	0.680
5	Kirk Cousins	$28 	14	10	1	25	0.560
6	Aaron Rodgers	$33.50 	13	10	1	24	0.542
7	Ben Roeth.	$34 	 9	 8	1	18	0.500
8	Carson Wentz	$32 	10	10	0	20	0.500
9	M. Stafford	$27 	 9	13	1	23	0.391
10	Matt Ryan	$30 	 8	15	0	23	0.348
Kirk's cap number is 31...
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Raptorman » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:44 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:15 pm
Raptorman wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:00 pm
Top ten QB's in pay this year and their records for 2018-19. Sorted by best win percentage.

Code: Select all

                                 W       L       T    Total     Win %
1	Drew Brees	$25.00 	15	 2	0	17	0.882
2	Jimmy Garoppolo	$27.50 	 8	 2	0	10	0.800
3	Jared Goff	$33.50 	18	 6	0	24	0.750
4	Russell Wilson	$35 	17	 8	0	25	0.680
5	Kirk Cousins	$28 	14	10	1	25	0.560
6	Aaron Rodgers	$33.50 	13	10	1	24	0.542
7	Ben Roeth.	$34 	 9	 8	1	18	0.500
8	Carson Wentz	$32 	10	10	0	20	0.500
9	M. Stafford	$27 	 9	13	1	23	0.391
10	Matt Ryan	$30 	 8	15	0	23	0.348
Kirk's cap number is 31...
Nope. His cap number is 29 this year, 31 in 2020. These are average numbers for 2019.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:04 pm

Raptorman wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:44 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:15 pm


Kirk's cap number is 31...
Nope. His cap number is 29 this year, 31 in 2020. These are average numbers for 2019.
Gotcha. What is it supposed to prove?
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:10 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:43 pm
Thank you for telling me what my point was. I did mention once that I felt Cousins was better when he got rid of the ball quicker. It is also better for the Oline if he is getting rid of it quicker, especially if the result of the pass is the same. Don't you agree?


No not necessarily. That was your point, you’ve proved that. Whether you said it once or ten times you still said it. We are #1 in the NFL for explosive plays. So clearly we’re sending guys deep often. If the plays aren’t calling for quick passes you’re going to take more time to throw regardless. It doesn’t make any sense that Kirk was consistently a 2.7 second passer for the last 3 years and all of the sudden is at 3.0 this year. There is way more to it than you are trying to put across. I’ve also said before that coming from under center with a 7 step drop takes more time than your standard shotgun formation many teams throw out of.
I have said time to throw is not a measurement of how long an Oline could have blocked for a QB, it is how long it needed to block for the QB. So in prior years, yes, Brady might have been able to hold it for 3 seconds(not this year, his line isn't very good this year). He didn't though, because getting rid of the ball quicker makes things easier for his offensive line. Savvy?

You are not arguing anything I haven't already said myself, multiple times.


So you’re telling me all of the sudden Tom Brady adjusted this year and is throwing the ball quicker? That’s like saying cousins regressed this year and is holding the ball longer. No, it’s the scheme and the calls being made that determine most of that.

Now you are just trolling me, right? You just posted that his time in the pocket, not rolling out, not buying time, HIS TIME IN THE POCKET was 2.96 seconds. That would be #1 in the NFL in longest time to to throw by itself. His total time to throw is 3.04 seconds. YOU just proved the rollouts are having very little impact on his total time to throw. How do you not realize that?
Again, it’s not just the rollouts. It’s the entire scheme in general. I can guarantee you that there is not another QB in the nfl under center as much as cousins. I don’t even think there is ones close. And we’re #1 in explosive plays. Yes a team that lines up like the 1985 bears on offense is the #1 team when it comes to explosive plays. And I can tell you these explosive plays aren’t coming from check downs. For what this offense calls for and the purpose behind it, cousins TTT time is going to go up. The majority of this offense is either running with cook, passing from under center or rolling out. Very little shotgun. Which means plays take longer to develop. But coming from under center, keeping defenses on their toes and being unpredictable doesn’t allow teams to pin their ears back and rush like they did a year ago against flip. Hence why the sack numbers are down. But you can’t sit there and tell me that on average, coming from under center and the amount of rollouts don’t effect that number. And guess what? Whether it effects the number or not, cousins is extremely efficient out of it. Whether you like it or not.

It isn't sustainable. It doesn't work against good defenses (see Bears and Packers), and it is going to cost us MORE games. The line is improved and we have played some cream puffs, so it has not been as big of an issue lately, but it will not work against the defenses we have coming up. An immobile QB needs to get rid of the ball quickly. That is football 101. How can you argue otherwise?
Dude what? :lol: When did the packers become a good defense? They are the 27th total defense in the nfl. 21st against the pass and 24th against the run. They are 17th in sacks this year. But you literally just stamped that defense as being “good”. Yet you said a defense like phillys is bad and they are an average team. When they are the #10 total defense, #5 vs the run and and #18 vs the pass.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Raptorman » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:17 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:04 pm
Raptorman wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:44 pm

Nope. His cap number is 29 this year, 31 in 2020. These are average numbers for 2019.
Gotcha. What is it supposed to prove?
People need to get over the cost of his contract. It's a moot point. Had they not signed Cousins, kept Keenum and Keenum goes 8-7-1 last year, people would be complaining that the Vikings did nothing to address the QB issue. If they would have kept Teddy, and he didn't do well. Same thing. If they had traded for Aaron Rodgers and were 4-5 this year, people would be complaining about the "bad trade".

It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB if your defense can't keep the other team out of the end zone. Even Tom Brady wins less than 50% of the games when his team gives up 25 points or more.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by CharVike » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:31 am

What is Stafford lifetime record? He should be at league min, He's the ultimate loser. Even Ryan that team blows. He's not helping at all. Bottom line when we get beat by the Cowboys it will be all Cousins again. The Cowboys should win. With Joesph out they will pound the rock down our throats. Hope Zim/DC see this and adjust with a different look. Obviously that won't happen. Be the same as last year when Joesph wore out and was worthless. Teams will run. That won't help our chances.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:29 am

Raptorman wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:17 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:04 pm


Gotcha. What is it supposed to prove?
People need to get over the cost of his contract. It's a moot point. Had they not signed Cousins, kept Keenum and Keenum goes 8-7-1 last year, people would be complaining that the Vikings did nothing to address the QB issue. If they would have kept Teddy, and he didn't do well. Same thing. If they had traded for Aaron Rodgers and were 4-5 this year, people would be complaining about the "bad trade".

It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB if your defense can't keep the other team out of the end zone. Even Tom Brady wins less than 50% of the games when his team gives up 25 points or more.
If they had kept Teddy or Case they would have had more money to make the team better. Since your argument has always been the team being good resulting in wins over the QB being good resulting in them, why wouldn't you take that money to make the team good?

You can't argue Cousins was worth the big contract and then turn around and argue QBs aren't that important to winning.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by CharVike » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:37 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:29 am
Raptorman wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:17 am


People need to get over the cost of his contract. It's a moot point. Had they not signed Cousins, kept Keenum and Keenum goes 8-7-1 last year, people would be complaining that the Vikings did nothing to address the QB issue. If they would have kept Teddy, and he didn't do well. Same thing. If they had traded for Aaron Rodgers and were 4-5 this year, people would be complaining about the "bad trade".

It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB if your defense can't keep the other team out of the end zone. Even Tom Brady wins less than 50% of the games when his team gives up 25 points or more.
If they had kept Teddy or Case they would have had more money to make the team better. Since your argument has always been the team being good resulting in wins over the QB being good resulting in them, why wouldn't you take that money to make the team good?

You can't argue Cousins was worth the big contract and then turn around and argue QBs aren't that important to winning.
IMO you need a team around the QB. When Fran came back to us we went 7-7. Still a good team but something went wrong. And part of that was no RB. We picked Foreman and it changed us. He was a great player and fit with what Fran did which was throw to the backs. Most felt our team was built by going 13-3. But even that team couldn't beat the good teams. We had and easy schedule and the Steelers were the high water mark and they kicked our ####. We were like a joke to them. I thought at that point the team was done. We started to beat the stiffs again but that road ends eventually and it did for us and another a$$ kicking in the champ game. Only made that because of a miracle. That summed our squad up. We are in the same spot now. We can't beat the higher end teams. We don't get crushed, because Cousins is better than Keenum, but we still get beat. It won't be 38-7 but now it will be 34-27. Same difference I know but at least we make a game of it. There's a chance. I expect us to get beat this week and not because the Cowboys are so great but because we are on the road. We don't have a HOF QB but I think we are second in our division. Bottom line you always need a legit QB. I seen the stiffs with us in 70,71 and we wasted arguably the greatest defensive years in Vikings history.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:25 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:10 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:43 pm
Thank you for telling me what my point was. I did mention once that I felt Cousins was better when he got rid of the ball quicker. It is also better for the Oline if he is getting rid of it quicker, especially if the result of the pass is the same. Don't you agree?


No not necessarily. That was your point, you’ve proved that. Whether you said it once or ten times you still said it. We are #1 in the NFL for explosive plays. So clearly we’re sending guys deep often. If the plays aren’t calling for quick passes you’re going to take more time to throw regardless. It doesn’t make any sense that Kirk was consistently a 2.7 second passer for the last 3 years and all of the sudden is at 3.0 this year. There is way more to it than you are trying to put across. I’ve also said before that coming from under center with a 7 step drop takes more time than your standard shotgun formation many teams throw out of.
I have said time to throw is not a measurement of how long an Oline could have blocked for a QB, it is how long it needed to block for the QB. So in prior years, yes, Brady might have been able to hold it for 3 seconds(not this year, his line isn't very good this year). He didn't though, because getting rid of the ball quicker makes things easier for his offensive line. Savvy?

You are not arguing anything I haven't already said myself, multiple times.


So you’re telling me all of the sudden Tom Brady adjusted this year and is throwing the ball quicker? That’s like saying cousins regressed this year and is holding the ball longer. No, it’s the scheme and the calls being made that determine most of that.

Now you are just trolling me, right? You just posted that his time in the pocket, not rolling out, not buying time, HIS TIME IN THE POCKET was 2.96 seconds. That would be #1 in the NFL in longest time to to throw by itself. His total time to throw is 3.04 seconds. YOU just proved the rollouts are having very little impact on his total time to throw. How do you not realize that?
Again, it’s not just the rollouts. It’s the entire scheme in general. I can guarantee you that there is not another QB in the nfl under center as much as cousins. I don’t even think there is ones close. And we’re #1 in explosive plays. Yes a team that lines up like the 1985 bears on offense is the #1 team when it comes to explosive plays. And I can tell you these explosive plays aren’t coming from check downs. For what this offense calls for and the purpose behind it, cousins TTT time is going to go up. The majority of this offense is either running with cook, passing from under center or rolling out. Very little shotgun. Which means plays take longer to develop. But coming from under center, keeping defenses on their toes and being unpredictable doesn’t allow teams to pin their ears back and rush like they did a year ago against flip. Hence why the sack numbers are down. But you can’t sit there and tell me that on average, coming from under center and the amount of rollouts don’t effect that number. And guess what? Whether it effects the number or not, cousins is extremely efficient out of it. Whether you like it or not.

It isn't sustainable. It doesn't work against good defenses (see Bears and Packers), and it is going to cost us MORE games. The line is improved and we have played some cream puffs, so it has not been as big of an issue lately, but it will not work against the defenses we have coming up. An immobile QB needs to get rid of the ball quickly. That is football 101. How can you argue otherwise?
Dude what? :lol: When did the packers become a good defense? They are the 27th total defense in the nfl. 21st against the pass and 24th against the run. They are 17th in sacks this year. But you literally just stamped that defense as being “good”. Yet you said a defense like phillys is bad and they are an average team. When they are the #10 total defense, #5 vs the run and and #18 vs the pass.
I didn't say Brady changed how he played. I said the opposite. Good pocket passing QBs get rid of the ball quickly regardless of how good their line is.

You can't keep moving the goal posts when you prove yourself wrong about why Cousins is holding the ball longer than any QB in the NFL.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:07 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:29 am
Raptorman wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:17 am


People need to get over the cost of his contract. It's a moot point. Had they not signed Cousins, kept Keenum and Keenum goes 8-7-1 last year, people would be complaining that the Vikings did nothing to address the QB issue. If they would have kept Teddy, and he didn't do well. Same thing. If they had traded for Aaron Rodgers and were 4-5 this year, people would be complaining about the "bad trade".

It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB if your defense can't keep the other team out of the end zone. Even Tom Brady wins less than 50% of the games when his team gives up 25 points or more.
If they had kept Teddy or Case they would have had more money to make the team better. Since your argument has always been the team being good resulting in wins over the QB being good resulting in them, why wouldn't you take that money to make the team good?

You can't argue Cousins was worth the big contract and then turn around and argue QBs aren't that important to winning.
Make the team better where? What did we truly need other than a QB? Offensive line? The only guard out there worth a damn that year was Norwell who is barely playing better than Kline right now. This year it was Saffold who is also barely playing better than Kline. 3 technique? The free agent DTs that year were not very good. If anybody, Suh who is past his prime. This year? Richardson who we let walk. Had him last year and it didn’t make our D turn the corner.

You’re acting like we’ve missed out on all this talent because of cousins contract and that couldn’t be more false. The talent in free agency at our positions of need was very, very weak
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:09 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:25 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:10 am


No not necessarily. That was your point, you’ve proved that. Whether you said it once or ten times you still said it. We are #1 in the NFL for explosive plays. So clearly we’re sending guys deep often. If the plays aren’t calling for quick passes you’re going to take more time to throw regardless. It doesn’t make any sense that Kirk was consistently a 2.7 second passer for the last 3 years and all of the sudden is at 3.0 this year. There is way more to it than you are trying to put across. I’ve also said before that coming from under center with a 7 step drop takes more time than your standard shotgun formation many teams throw out of.



So you’re telling me all of the sudden Tom Brady adjusted this year and is throwing the ball quicker? That’s like saying cousins regressed this year and is holding the ball longer. No, it’s the scheme and the calls being made that determine most of that.



Again, it’s not just the rollouts. It’s the entire scheme in general. I can guarantee you that there is not another QB in the nfl under center as much as cousins. I don’t even think there is ones close. And we’re #1 in explosive plays. Yes a team that lines up like the 1985 bears on offense is the #1 team when it comes to explosive plays. And I can tell you these explosive plays aren’t coming from check downs. For what this offense calls for and the purpose behind it, cousins TTT time is going to go up. The majority of this offense is either running with cook, passing from under center or rolling out. Very little shotgun. Which means plays take longer to develop. But coming from under center, keeping defenses on their toes and being unpredictable doesn’t allow teams to pin their ears back and rush like they did a year ago against flip. Hence why the sack numbers are down. But you can’t sit there and tell me that on average, coming from under center and the amount of rollouts don’t effect that number. And guess what? Whether it effects the number or not, cousins is extremely efficient out of it. Whether you like it or not.



Dude what? :lol: When did the packers become a good defense? They are the 27th total defense in the nfl. 21st against the pass and 24th against the run. They are 17th in sacks this year. But you literally just stamped that defense as being “good”. Yet you said a defense like phillys is bad and they are an average team. When they are the #10 total defense, #5 vs the run and and #18 vs the pass.
I didn't say Brady changed how he played. I said the opposite. Good pocket passing QBs get rid of the ball quickly regardless of how good their line is.

You can't keep moving the goal posts when you prove yourself wrong about why Cousins is holding the ball longer than any QB in the NFL.
Cousins holding the ball longer has not effected his play at all. The stats I showed proved that which in turn, makes your argument invalid.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by fiestavike » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:45 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:09 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:25 pm

I didn't say Brady changed how he played. I said the opposite. Good pocket passing QBs get rid of the ball quickly regardless of how good their line is.

You can't keep moving the goal posts when you prove yourself wrong about why Cousins is holding the ball longer than any QB in the NFL.
Cousins holding the ball longer has not effected his play at all. The stats I showed proved that which in turn, makes your argument invalid.
That's wrong. It affects his play positively when it doesn't effect it negatively. The effect of negative plays is severely underestimated by most fans.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:59 pm

fiestavike wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:45 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:09 pm


Cousins holding the ball longer has not effected his play at all. The stats I showed proved that which in turn, makes your argument invalid.
That's wrong. It affects his play positively when it doesn't effect it negatively. The effect of negative plays is severely underestimated by most fans.
Clearly you missed the stat then.

Cousins from in the pocket:

When holding it for less than 2.5 seconds: 112.0 passer rating

When holding it more than 2.5 seconds: 112.1 passer rating

I think his play this year is what has been severely underestimated by fans. Granted he’s had two poor games like any QB. But he’s not making near the amount of turnovers (11 by this point last year, he has 5 this year (one being 100% on diggs)), he’s not taking near the amount of sacks (24 by this point last year, 16 this year) and has us at 6-3.

These are things guys complained about last year. The sacks, the turnovers, etc. Now he’s doing drastically better with both and guys are still complaining. His garbage time numbers are next to nothing at this point. Really only the bears game. Anything he’s done this year he’s earned for the most part. But instead guys are trying to make an argument that’s”holding the ball too long” is effecting his play. It’s not, he’s been just as good holding the ball longer as he has getting it out quick. And again, when you’re going deep as often as we are, you need to hold the ball longer. I can also bet that having constant 7 step drops from under center is also jacking that number higher.

I’m starting to think this guy needs to turn into Pat Mahomes over night in order for some fans to ever side with him. Like I’ve been saying, he never got a fair shot from the start with many fans and at this rate, he’ll never get a fair shot no matter how good he plays
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by CharVike » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:38 pm

I wonder what QB just had this stat line last week.
46 30 285 6.2 1 1 30 2 17 80.4
An 80 rating in todays world sucks. Thing is he played a team for a change and was pressured. Pressure gets them all. When your defense sucks it makes it harder and that happened also. When we faced the Pack our D didn't try. They put us in a hole that was too deep. We were buried because the D sucked. It was over at that point.
Cousins is what he is. He's not elite. The Rodgers and Brees of the world won't become FA. Unless they have a guy in the hole. That happened to Farve. They said bye bye your finished.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Raptorman » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:41 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:29 am
Raptorman wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:17 am


People need to get over the cost of his contract. It's a moot point. Had they not signed Cousins, kept Keenum and Keenum goes 8-7-1 last year, people would be complaining that the Vikings did nothing to address the QB issue. If they would have kept Teddy, and he didn't do well. Same thing. If they had traded for Aaron Rodgers and were 4-5 this year, people would be complaining about the "bad trade".

It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB if your defense can't keep the other team out of the end zone. Even Tom Brady wins less than 50% of the games when his team gives up 25 points or more.
If they had kept Teddy or Case they would have had more money to make the team better. Since your argument has always been the team being good resulting in wins over the QB being good resulting in them, why wouldn't you take that money to make the team good?

You can't argue Cousins was worth the big contract and then turn around and argue QBs aren't that important to winning.
It's a team game period. It doesn't matter how much you pay your QB. Well, it does if it affects the other aspects of the team. My point has always been it doesn't take a top 5 QB to win in the NFL. It's a myth. You need a QB that doesn't make stupid mistakes. IF that QB costs 28 million a year so be it. If it cost 4 million a year so be it.

Aaron Rodgers has been one of the highest-paid QB's in the league for the last 10 years. His record when the Packers defense gives up 25 ppg or more is 18-43-1.

Joe Montana, another great QB. His record was 13-19 when they gave up 25 ppg or more. Brady is 33-42. The fact is, when the defense gives up 25 ppg or more, you have less than a 50% chance of winning that game.
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