Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

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Pondering Her Percy
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:18 am

Cliff wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:12 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:27 am
A better example is Sunday's game against the Chiefs. The Vikings trailed going into the quarter, took the lead, then lost it on a walk-off field goal.
And see in my mind it's an example of exactly my problem with Cousins. He had a good game overall and the team didn't lose because of his play. That said, after KC tied the game up the Vikings had the ball for 2 more drives. Cousins went 1/4 for -7 yards.
And this is where I argue that. I listen to multiple different Vikings podcasts on the way to work every morning and this situation was talked about a few times.

The first of two drives, consisted of:

1st down: Incomplete to Ham

2nd down: Cook run

3rd down: Cook run

4th down: Punt

The second drive consisted of:

1st down: Batted ball at the line intended for Diggs. Bad luck, wasnt telegraphed, eyes were downfield straight ahead then quickly at Diggs on an inside slant. And if you watch the clip, Diggs was open and that was at least a 7+ yard gain. He had a linebacker covering him.
Highlight here: https://www.nfl.com/share/32052020-2020 ... 3735393130

2nd down: An awful screen to Irv that lost 7 yards and put us in 3rd and 17. I dont know how a failed screen can be a QBs fault? I would say that's on the OC if anything and/or the failed blocks.

3rd down: Watch Pat Elflein on this play. A play that was a near sack that had a guy right in Cousins face by the time he hit the back of his drop. And given that it was a 3rd and 17, clearly you need time for routes to develop if you want to try and gain a first down in crunch time. In turn, incomplete pass

4th down: Punt
Highlight here: https://www.nfl.com/share/32052020-2020 ... 3735393137


So in the end, instead of just looking at the numbers Kirk had on those drives, I look into the plays themselves. Tell me how many of those 6 offensive plays above were TRULY Kirk's fault? The incomplete pass to Ham on the first drive? Anything else? But media, fans, etc. will continue to look at a box score, a final score, 2 series as a whole, etc. That to me, is again, another unfair shot at Cousins. Guys WANT to point the finger at HIM because we didnt go anywhere either of those drives.

Did you by chance watch the Chargers/Raiders game last night? The final drive for the Chargers where they only needed to get into field goal range to possibly win the game....Rivers was downright horrendous. In 7 plays, he was 0 for 8 with an INT to seal it. He had 3 straight incompletions on constant erratic throws, then lucked out on a bad PI call on 4th down. Then had 3 more throws that were just as erratic as the first 3 and closes the game out with an INT on 4th down. THAT is failing to execute as a QB. And if Kirk Cousins had something similar to that vs. KC, there is no defending him. But given what was called in that KC game, I dont know how anyone can really say Cousins blew it on those drives. The guy never had a chance on those drives between the pressure given up by Elflein, failed runs, batted ball and poor play calling. Especially with that screen.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:33 am

StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:55 pm
On Cousins game losing fumble against the Rams:


Second, Cousins arm was hit when he was pulling back to throw, after Rashod Hill got smoked. But yeah what is Kirk thinking? I feel like literally no matter what happens in any game, it's Cousins' fault in your eyes. How about Rashod Hill holds up against a no-name DE when the game is on the line
Not very consistent with what you said about Teddy's fumbles...
:lol: ohhh you're so sneaky Stump, really got me there. Do me a favor, go watch Teddy's attempts vs. Arizona and Denver. Against Denver he held the ball for 2.99 seconds before getting stripped. Against Arizona he held the ball for 3.23 seconds before getting stripped. Cousins held the ball for 2.69 seconds before getting stripped against the Rams. Part of the reason I've brought those plays by Teddy up is because I remembered him double clutching both passes and holding onto the ball for longer than needed. Cousins double clutched his as well but when you watch the clip, it's because he was going to Thielen in front of him and Thielen wasnt turned around when Kirk wanted to throw. Regardless, we're splitting hairs here. It's been said that Teddy was "great under pressure" and when the game was on the line, he really wasnt and those games proved that. Nor did I ever claim Cousins was "good" under pressure. He does well vs the blitz but he's not an all star under pressure by any means.

But come on man!! You're the king of accusing a QB of holding the ball too long....you should know this!!


And just a side note I saw this stat today.....

Kirk Cousins average time in the pocket is 2.96 seconds.

-His passer rating UNDER 2.5 seconds: 112.0

-His passer rating OVER 2.5 seconds: 112.1

Just one more thing that puts your "he holds the ball too long, it's not the OL" argument to rest.....
Last edited by Pondering Her Percy on Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Cliff » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:37 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:45 am
I do follow them all pretty close. I dont get why Philly (either year) is considered an average team. They made the playoffs, they have 90% of their SB roster still. He pis# pounded them on the road and at home. Sure, he lost to Seattle, New England, Chicago, etc. But my point is, give credit to where credit is due. Guys are trying to now say how Philly isnt a good enough team and it basically doesnt count in their eyes.

Like is there a rubric for this that we have to follow. Are we only allowed to count teams that have a specific record? We can count KC, rip him for that and say they are a "good team" with a guy that wasnt in the NFL 2 months ago but try and call Philly average when they 1.) have a winning record and 2.) beat GB on the road and beat a Chicago team we got whooped by. And he didnt just beat Philly, he shredded them. That makes zero sense to me. If you're using NFL.com power rankings, they have us at #10 and Philly at #12.

I'm guessing they were just looking at the record. Last year they were one game away from being 8-8 which seems pretty average. In the end, to me the Eagles count as a "good team" (or at least winning team) last year.

This season I would say the argument is probably that they were missing 6 people (one put on IR, 5 just out for the game) which included their 2 key members of their secondary. That said, if the Eagles have a winning record when the year ends they'd count against that stat that keeps coming up.
I guess they dont "rip him when he beats average to weak teams" but they also give him zero credit. He's beating teams he is suppose to beat but IMO, a win is a win in the NFL.
I don't disagree and give him credit for that. It's not a knock against him that he has played well against "lesser" teams. It's just that it is his reputation already. It's why he's a great fantasy football QB. Of course people aren't singing his praises when he beats down the teams that everyone expects him to.
I can guarantee this week if we beat Dallas, some fans will still look to find ways of saying Dallas is "average" and I'm sure the Jets loss will be in play (maybe they wont if they see I'm already calling them out for it). But if he loses.... he'll be the worst QB in the NFL. Philly was the same exact type of game. Fans found ways to say they are average when we win, but if we lost, Cousins would be again criticized for not being able to beat a "winning team". So like I said, the guy doesnt have a fair shot and didnt get one from the start by many fans.
I can't speak for everyone else but I'll be thrilled if Cousins comes out and does well against Dallas. Dallas, as it stands right now, seems to be a good team. If they drop every game the rest of the season of course that opinion will change.

If he loses to Dallas it's just what I expect. He won't suddenly be the worst QB ever.

Hell, we don't even have to say its Cousins fault at all that is the reason teams that he plays for can't seem to beat "winning" teams. We can start calling it the "Cousins Curse" if you want. I don't even care what people think the reasons are anymore. The stats are what they are.
As for him being the missing piece. Yeah he was crowned the "missing piece" of the team going into 2018. But again, that shouldnt automatically be pointed to winning a SB. This team underwhelmed last year 100%. I think he was better than some credited him for but he was very underwhelming at times. But just because we get the "missing piece" last year, doesnt mean ALL the others pieces are now allowed to fail at their job. Cousins has to do his job just as much as Xavier Rhodes, Mike Zimmer, John DeFillippo, practically any offensive lineman, Everson Griffen (non- football related but still) and so on.

Guys want to say Cousins might have been the "missing piece" but fans ignore the fact that we might have lost the most important piece of all (from an offensive standpoint) and that's Pat Shurmur. I have used the Bengals as an example before. Nobody has had more coaches robbed from them than Cincy has for a stretch. They lose Hue Jackson, Mike Zimmer, Jay Gruden, etc. Did anyone expect that defense to be as good or better after Zimmer left? No matter who they brought in as a coach or players? No. Did anyone expect Cincy's offense to continue getting better after they lost Jay Gruden then Hue Jackson?? No. They were very important pieces to their success and in turn, Cincy never recovered from losing them. Same goes for Pat Shurmur. I think our Stefanski and Kubiak are miles better than Flip was. I dont think they are at Shurmurs level, especially when the pressure is on but Flip was downright horrid. One of the worst I can think of when it comes to Vikings OCs. Just the fact that we had Dalvin Cook and Latavius Murray on this team and he couldnt figure out how to effectively utilize either of them. And guys wanted to blame the OL last year. Nope, 110% the OC. Nobody can tell me we couldnt run the ball last year with Cook and Murray 20+ times a game and not be AT LEAST in the average range of rushing offenses. And that then trickles down to less pressure being on Cousins to do everything, then that trickles down to utilizing Kirk's biggest strength in play action which then trickles down to keeping defenses on their toes and being an unpredictable play caller and that probably leads to more wins. AT LEAST enough to get us into the playoffs last year. THAT's how poor Flip was. And that's how much worse he was than Shurmur. We gained a key piece in Cousins but lost arguably the biggest piece in Shurmur. But nobody talks about that. They talk about Cousins and how HE has failed.
People talk about losing Shurmur constantly. Cousins has had the problems that I complain about his entire starting career (collapsing in important moments and/or against good teams).

Kirk Cousins choked away the playoffs, but the Redskins should still give him $100 million
When it meant the most, when the team he’d led all season, setting records along the way, played the only game that mattered, Kirk Cousins looked nothing like a franchise quarterback who should be commanding a nine-figure contract two months from now. But despite Cousins having his worst performance of the season in the Washington Redskins’ do-or-die, 19-10 death to the New York Giants — and despite what you’ll hear from the knee-jerk armchair general managing this week and beyond — his market value is unchanged.
Philadelphia Eagles: Choke Artist Kirk Cousins lands Philly a playoff berth
All the Minnesota Vikings had to do to keep the Philadelphia Eagles out of the playoffs was beat the Bears. Fortunately, their quarterback is Kirk Cousins.

Even though he’s no longer in the NFC East, Kirk Cousins is the gift that keeps on giving.

While Philadelphia Eagles fans certainly have fond memories of the former Washington Redskins quarterback dropping the ball over and over again in clutch situations, in Week 17, he may have pulled off the biggest blunder of his career.
Google Kirk Cousins choking. It goes on and on. Of course he had the excuse that the Redskins weren't very good. Then he comes to a mostly unchanged Vikings team coming off the NFCC game. The excuse now is that the Vikings lost coaches?

Call it what you want. Kirk Chokes, Kirk is unlucky, Kirk is cursed. Whatever ... the results are the same.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by CharVike » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:39 am

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:21 am
I saw Cunningham play in Philly for years. He was never an intellectual QB. When the primary receiver was covered, he used his legs. By the time he got to Minnesota he wasn't as nifty on foot, BUT he learned very early on that if the primary receiver was covered, just throw to it in the direction of Moss. Didn't matter if he was covered, double covered or sometimes triple covered. Moss came down with the ball an unbelievable amount of the time. Any QB that had Moss, and trusted his contested ball abilities, benefited greatly. Cousins is the best technical QB that the Vikings have had in a long time, other than maybe Favre. But Favre had the gun slinging mentality. I personally like that in QB. No fear. I don't see that in Cousins. Can he still lead a team to the promised land? Maybe, but I don't think so.

You keep saying that everyone puts the losses on Cousins. I don't remember seeing one person that blamed him for the loss.

You keep saying that we wouldn't judge Bridgewater or Keenum the same way. That statement is only made because you read the posts through your Cousins Defending Glasses. Cousins came out of a stretch of 4 games where he threw 10 TD's and only 1 INT against questionable opponents. He had Delvin Cook running like a beast which can do nothing but help the passing game. So why when Keenum had a stretch of 4 games against questionable opponents in 2017, where he threw 11 TD's and 3 INT's is it SO different. Especially since Keenum continued that for a much longer stretch of games and had Murray as the running back?

It's great to have a different opinion. We all see things from different perspectives. I just think you're so locked into defending Cousins that you're not even seeing those different perspectives.
Sorry for late feedback but Cunningham was a joke. His long arm made it take forever to get the ball out. That year we had Farve he turned the season around on a game winner against the 49ers and he threw a rocket that was out in a spit second to some bum WR for the game winner. That's a QB. Cunningham wouldn't even attempt that because with that long throwing motion it wouldn't have happened. He would have done what he always did and took off for the long run. That's how Buddy used him. One read then go. That's not a QB IMO.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:13 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:33 am
He does well vs the blitz but he's not an all star under pressure by any means
Agreed, which is why I struggle so much with having him at QB. Without that clutch, become a better QB with the game on the line, intangible skill that all the great QBs have, it just seems unlikely we will ever win it all with him.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:28 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:33 am
StumpHunter wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:55 pm
On Cousins game losing fumble against the Rams:




Not very consistent with what you said about Teddy's fumbles...
:lol: ohhh you're so sneaky Stump, really got me there. Do me a favor, go watch Teddy's attempts vs. Arizona and Denver. Against Denver he held the ball for 2.99 seconds before getting stripped. Against Arizona he held the ball for 3.23 seconds before getting stripped. Cousins held the ball for 2.69 seconds before getting stripped against the Rams. Part of the reason I've brought those plays by Teddy up is because I remembered him double clutching both passes and holding onto the ball for longer than needed. Cousins double clutched his as well but when you watch the clip, it's because he was going to Thielen in front of him and Thielen wasnt turned around when Kirk wanted to throw. Regardless, we're splitting hairs here. It's been said that Teddy was "great under pressure" and when the game was on the line, he really wasnt and those games proved that. Nor did I ever claim Cousins was "good" under pressure. He does well vs the blitz but he's not an all star under pressure by any means.

But come on man!! You're the king of accusing a QB of holding the ball too long....you should know this!!


And just a side note I saw this stat today.....

Kirk Cousins average time in the pocket is 2.96 seconds.

-His passer rating UNDER 2.5 seconds: 112.0

-His passer rating OVER 2.5 seconds: 112.1

Just one more thing that puts your "he holds the ball too long, it's not the OL" argument to rest.....
Our offensive line is giving the QB nearly 3 seconds in the pocket? :shock:

That has got to be #1 in the NFL by quite a bit.

Impressive, thank you for sharing even if you think it was some sort of gotcha. I know Cousins holds the ball forever and it isn't all the bootlegs or scrambling he does. That is what I have been saying all along. Based on this number he only averages .08 seconds outside the pocket. You proved my point for me and I really do appreciate it.

I am a bit surprised the passer rating is equal as it seemed to me he was better when he got rid of the ball quickly. Do you have his YPA for the two splits?

Any chance you can give me a link to this so I can quote it every time someone says the line sucks and no QB could do good behind it?

Also, the fastest sack in that Rams game was 3.1 seconds and it wasn't the one in question. In fact, the 20th fastest was 3.44 and none of the ones faster were the sack in question. Where did you get 2.69?
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Dames » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:21 pm

VikingLord wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:03 am
Yes and no. In terms of the amount of money involved, that is top-tier money for a QB. Now, Cousins can't be blamed if the Vikings evaluated him as a top-tier QB and he's not a top-tier QB, but, considering they could have just stuck with Keenum at what, $18 million per year non-guaranteed and invested that savings in players at other positions, it's not as insignificant an amount, or as inconsequential a decision, as your response implies.
Serious question, because I think this is the 2nd time I've seen something similar posted about the cap space issue with Cousins contract in last day or 2 (one may not have been you). I've seen this argument before, and it seems legit until you look at what is actually happening on the Vikings. I don't think we've lost out on signing any of our FAs, nor have we missed out on signing any potential FA on the market due to his contract. I may not be remembering someone though, but it seems that we are still signing guys we want, so it hasn't been any issue. Maybe next year we'll have a problem though?
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:23 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:28 pm


Our offensive line is giving the QB nearly 3 seconds in the pocket? :shock:

That has got to be #1 in the NFL by quite a bit.

Impressive, thank you for sharing even if you think it was some sort of gotcha. I know Cousins holds the ball forever and it isn't all the bootlegs or scrambling he does. That is what I have been saying all along. Based on this number he only averages .08 seconds outside the pocket. You proved my point for me and I really do appreciate it.

I am a bit surprised the passer rating is equal as it seemed to me he was better when he got rid of the ball quickly. Do you have his YPA for the two splits?

Any chance you can give me a link to this so I can quote it every time someone says the line sucks and no QB could do good behind it?

Also, the fastest sack in that Rams game was 3.1 seconds and it wasn't the one in question. In fact, the 20th fastest was 3.44 and none of the ones faster were the sack in question. Where did you get 2.69?
:lol: The entire point is, you've always tried to claim he was the problem anytime something went wrong mainly because he holds the ball too long and is only good when he gets the ball out quick. Clearly you are wrong. He's just as good throwing the ball over 2.5 seconds than he is under 2.5 seconds. Even a nut hair better. And bottom line is, you no longer have a point. You no longer have grasp of that straw. It just goes to show how little weight that stat carried and I've told you that time and time again.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:35 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:23 pm
StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:28 pm


Our offensive line is giving the QB nearly 3 seconds in the pocket? :shock:

That has got to be #1 in the NFL by quite a bit.

Impressive, thank you for sharing even if you think it was some sort of gotcha. I know Cousins holds the ball forever and it isn't all the bootlegs or scrambling he does. That is what I have been saying all along. Based on this number he only averages .08 seconds outside the pocket. You proved my point for me and I really do appreciate it.

I am a bit surprised the passer rating is equal as it seemed to me he was better when he got rid of the ball quickly. Do you have his YPA for the two splits?

Any chance you can give me a link to this so I can quote it every time someone says the line sucks and no QB could do good behind it?

Also, the fastest sack in that Rams game was 3.1 seconds and it wasn't the one in question. In fact, the 20th fastest was 3.44 and none of the ones faster were the sack in question. Where did you get 2.69?
:lol: The entire point is, you've always tried to claim he was the problem anytime something went wrong mainly because he holds the ball too long and is only good when he gets the ball out quick. Clearly you are wrong. He's just as good throwing the ball over 2.5 seconds than he is under 2.5 seconds. Even a nut hair better. And bottom line is, you no longer have a point. You no longer have grasp of that straw. It just goes to show how little weight that stat carried and I've told you that time and time again.
My main point was, and always has been, that he holds the ball too long in the pocket, and you proved me right. Congratulations.

I thought he was better when getting rid of the ball quicker, I guess I was wrong. When given all day to throw in the pocket he has a good passer rating like nearly every QB in the entire NFL would.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:47 pm

Dames wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:21 pm
VikingLord wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:03 am
Yes and no. In terms of the amount of money involved, that is top-tier money for a QB. Now, Cousins can't be blamed if the Vikings evaluated him as a top-tier QB and he's not a top-tier QB, but, considering they could have just stuck with Keenum at what, $18 million per year non-guaranteed and invested that savings in players at other positions, it's not as insignificant an amount, or as inconsequential a decision, as your response implies.
Serious question, because I think this is the 2nd time I've seen something similar posted about the cap space issue with Cousins contract in last day or 2 (one may not have been you). I've seen this argument before, and it seems legit until you look at what is actually happening on the Vikings. I don't think we've lost out on signing any of our FAs, nor have we missed out on signing any potential FA on the market due to his contract. I may not be remembering someone though, but it seems that we are still signing guys we want, so it hasn't been any issue. Maybe next year we'll have a problem though?
Our big Free Agent signing for a team that won 8 games was a RG that was cut by the Titans so being tight up against the cap seemed to have limited our ability to get better that way. The Vikings have also pushed a lot of the cap hits for their big contracts to 2021 and beyond. They are over the cap for next year, do not have 2 of their top 3 corners signed and their starting safety is unsigned for next year.

Griffen is essentially unsigned for next season, and his contract coming off the books will get us in the black, but then we don't have anyone to replace Hunter at LDE when he moves over to RDE to replace Griffen. Weatherly might be a nice stop gap, but again, he is unsigned.

If the Vikings cut Rhodes, and give back loaded contracts to Mac, Harris, Cook and Weatherly, they can keep almost everyone and only get slightly worse in free agency. The draft can help fill some other holes, but they would need to have another stellar draft to keep the status quo. Which is fine if they win the SB this year, not fine if they go 10-6 and are bounced in the first round.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by VikingLord » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:48 pm

Dames wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:21 pm
Serious question, because I think this is the 2nd time I've seen something similar posted about the cap space issue with Cousins contract in last day or 2 (one may not have been you). I've seen this argument before, and it seems legit until you look at what is actually happening on the Vikings. I don't think we've lost out on signing any of our FAs, nor have we missed out on signing any potential FA on the market due to his contract. I may not be remembering someone though, but it seems that we are still signing guys we want, so it hasn't been any issue. Maybe next year we'll have a problem though?
Money going to one player is money that can't go to another. If the Vikes spent $10 million more per year on Cousins than they would have on Keenum, that is $10 million that can't go elsewhere.

It's not just the totals, either. It's also that the extra money is guaranteed. The Vikings owe Cousins that money even if he doesn't play another down for them, and likewise, that's money that can't go elsewhere. If a guy like Tom Brady were to be available next year the Vikings won't be in play for him because they can't realistically shed Cousins. Had Cousins gotten a deal with guaranteed money up front as is more typical of most free agents, if this season ends up being a bust again, the Vikings could realistically part ways with Cousins and be in the market for a guy like Brady.

As far as signing of FAs goes, that is harder to assess the overall impact because money gets backloaded when contracts are extended and such. But IIRC, Barr took less to stay with Minnesota, and, as Stumphunter pointed out, next year's cap situation looks challenging.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:39 pm

StumpHunter wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:35 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:23 pm


:lol: The entire point is, you've always tried to claim he was the problem anytime something went wrong mainly because he holds the ball too long and is only good when he gets the ball out quick. Clearly you are wrong. He's just as good throwing the ball over 2.5 seconds than he is under 2.5 seconds. Even a nut hair better. And bottom line is, you no longer have a point. You no longer have grasp of that straw. It just goes to show how little weight that stat carried and I've told you that time and time again.
My main point was, and always has been, that he holds the ball too long in the pocket, and you proved me right. Congratulations.

I thought he was better when getting rid of the ball quicker, I guess I was wrong. When given all day to throw in the pocket he has a good passer rating like nearly every QB in the entire NFL would.
lol your point was that he holds the ball too long in the pocket AND his game was effected by it. You didnt just claim "he held the ball too long" but didnt add complaining in with it. You tried to gear that towards losses and actually claimed that he was much worse when holding it too long. Beat around the bush all you want, you dont have a leg to stand on.

As for the "given all day to throw" comment....Tom Brady for example, has 2.62 seconds to throw (on average). He's at the bottom of the league in time to throw. Does that mean his OL is terrible?? Or does it mean Brady has a quick release? It means Brady has a quick release. His OL could block for another 2.62 and he wouldnt be touched. Point is, this time to throw stat you love so dearly, is not a direct reflection on the OL. I think part of the problem is you dont understand it when you think you do.
Time To Throw (TT)
Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).
The problem is, Next Gen stats has it worded wrong. It should say something along the lines of "release by QB". Because essentially, what it comes down to is how quick the QB gets the ball out of his hands the second it's snapped to him. Which is also why I've brought up the rollouts before because rollouts arent suppose to be a "quick release" pass. It's to buy time (and get away from a bad OL) to let big play shots develop downfield.

Essentially, if you go by the wording of "time to throw" and take the stat literally, it essentially shows that Brady's OL is horrible and Cousins OL is elite. And anyone with a brain and one eye can tell you that is far from true. If you sit there and argue how "fast" Cousins releases the ball, sure you could say he holds it longer than the norm. But what I dont get and this is why I have mentioned the rollouts multiple times is because since they've kept this stat in 2016, his time to throw numbers are: 2.81, 2.7 and 2.74. But this year he crushed it with 3.04. This can only point to one thing only...the rollouts and style of offense he is now running is now adding time to that statistic.

Either way, I'll just prove this point once again since you didnt understand it last time....

-If you claim that Cousins holding the ball "too long" is such a problem and effects his play, then how, I repeat...HOW can he possibly be holding the ball for 3.04 seconds this year but only soaking 16 sacks where as last year he was getting rid of it MUCH quicker at 2.74 seconds but soaked 24 sacks by this point???!! He is now holding the ball 0.3 seconds longer than he was last year (which is a large margin for this stat) but taking much less sacks. How does that make any sense at all? It doesnt because it's clearly not a problem. His passer rating is very good no matter when he is getting rid of the ball. And to top it all off, last year at this point of the season, he had 11 turnovers. Right now he has 5. I know it pains you to say it but the guy has played pretty darn good football this year. This is why I always say that this time to throw stat you're so obsessed with is all you have, or should I say had, left to grab onto.

2018 Kirk Cousins heading into week 10
-Record- 5-3-1
-17 TDs, 5 INTs, 6 lost fumbles
-Soaked 24 sacks
-Holding the ball for 2.74 seconds.

2019 Kirk Cousins heading into week 10
-Record- 6-3
-16 TDs, 2 INTs (I'm not going to even say 3 because the pick vs Philly was a pathetic drop by Diggs), 2 lost fumbles
-Soaked 16 sacks
-Holding the ball for 3.04 seconds

Sack numbers are way down from last year, turnovers are way down from last year but you're sitting here complaining that he holds the ball too long and solely focusing on that this year? Ok....whatever floats your boat but clearly it's not effecting his play at all. If anything, he's been better. Time to move on from that stat and your intent behind it.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by fiestavike » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:49 pm

Next year is liable to be the start of a rebuilding effort. Guys who can be released without cap hit and who have only a couple years left in their prime could be released or traded. Draft a QB and hand the reins from Cousins to the new guy partway through the season, or sign a competent backup to serve as stopgap after Kirk is gone if they want to preserve draft capital to make a run for a QB the next year. Worst case scenario, they keep trying to hold on, but the team gets weaker and weaker, and Cousins is asked to pass 40 times a game to keep us in it. That path spells longterm disaster for this franchise.

A lot of the eggs are in this year's basket, and all the pieces are in place for Kirk to have his best year to date. So far, he hasn't taken advantage of that. If he wants to be part of the plan past this year he is going to have to undergo a temperamental change, and that's not fair or realistic to expect of anyone.
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by StumpHunter » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:43 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:39 pm
lol your point was that he holds the ball too long in the pocket AND his game was effected by it. You didnt just claim "he held the ball too long" but didnt add complaining in with it. You tried to gear that towards losses and actually claimed that he was much worse when holding it too long. Beat around the bush all you want, you dont have a leg to stand on.
Thank you for telling me what my point was. I did mention once that I felt Cousins was better when he got rid of the ball quicker. It is also better for the Oline if he is getting rid of it quicker, especially if the result of the pass is the same. Don't you agree?

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:39 pm
As for the "given all day to throw" comment....Tom Brady for example, has 2.62 seconds to throw (on average). He's at the bottom of the league in time to throw. Does that mean his OL is terrible?? Or does it mean Brady has a quick release? It means Brady has a quick release. His OL could block for another 2.62 and he wouldnt be touched. Point is, this time to throw stat you love so dearly, is not a direct reflection on the OL. I think part of the problem is you dont understand it when you think you do.
I have said time to throw is not a measurement of how long an Oline could have blocked for a QB, it is how long it needed to block for the QB. So in prior years, yes, Brady might have been able to hold it for 3 seconds(not this year, his line isn't very good this year). He didn't though, because getting rid of the ball quicker makes things easier for his offensive line. Savvy?

You are not arguing anything I haven't already said myself, multiple times.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:39 pm
Time To Throw (TT)
Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).
The problem is, Next Gen stats has it worded wrong. It should say something along the lines of "release by QB". Because essentially, what it comes down to is how quick the QB gets the ball out of his hands the second it's snapped to him. Which is also why I've brought up the rollouts before because rollouts arent suppose to be a "quick release" pass. It's to buy time (and get away from a bad OL) to let big play shots develop downfield.

Essentially, if you go by the wording of "time to throw" and take the stat literally, it essentially shows that Brady's OL is horrible and Cousins OL is elite. And anyone with a brain and one eye can tell you that is far from true. If you sit there and argue how "fast" Cousins releases the ball, sure you could say he holds it longer than the norm. But what I dont get and this is why I have mentioned the rollouts multiple times is because since they've kept this stat in 2016, his time to throw numbers are: 2.81, 2.7 and 2.74. But this year he crushed it with 3.04. This can only point to one thing only...the rollouts and style of offense he is now running is now adding time to that statistic.
Now you are just trolling me, right? You just posted that his time in the pocket, not rolling out, not buying time, HIS TIME IN THE POCKET was 2.96 seconds. That would be #1 in the NFL in longest time to to throw by itself. His total time to throw is 3.04 seconds. YOU just proved the rollouts are having very little impact on his total time to throw. How do you not realize that?
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:39 pm
Either way, I'll just prove this point once again since you didnt understand it last time....

-If you claim that Cousins holding the ball "too long" is such a problem and effects his play, then how, I repeat...HOW can he possibly be holding the ball for 3.04 seconds this year but only soaking 16 sacks where as last year he was getting rid of it MUCH quicker at 2.74 seconds but soaked 24 sacks by this point???!! He is now holding the ball 0.3 seconds longer than he was last year (which is a large margin for this stat) but taking much less sacks. How does that make any sense at all? It doesnt because it's clearly not a problem. His passer rating is very good no matter when he is getting rid of the ball. And to top it all off, last year at this point of the season, he had 11 turnovers. Right now he has 5. I know it pains you to say it but the guy has played pretty darn good football this year. This is why I always say that this time to throw stat you're so obsessed with is all you have, or should I say had, left to grab onto.

2018 Kirk Cousins heading into week 10
-Record- 5-3-1
-17 TDs, 5 INTs, 6 lost fumbles
-Soaked 24 sacks
-Holding the ball for 2.74 seconds.

2019 Kirk Cousins heading into week 10
-Record- 6-3
-16 TDs, 2 INTs (I'm not going to even say 3 because the pick vs Philly was a pathetic drop by Diggs), 2 lost fumbles
-Soaked 16 sacks
-Holding the ball for 3.04 seconds

Sack numbers are way down from last year, turnovers are way down from last year but you're sitting here complaining that he holds the ball too long and solely focusing on that this year? Ok....whatever floats your boat but clearly it's not effecting his play at all. If anything, he's been better. Time to move on from that stat and your intent behind it.
It isn't sustainable. It doesn't work against good defenses (see Bears and Packers), and it is going to cost us MORE games. The line is improved and we have played some cream puffs, so it has not been as big of an issue lately, but it will not work against the defenses we have coming up. An immobile QB needs to get rid of the ball quickly. That is football 101. How can you argue otherwise?
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Re: Answering everyone’s Cousins questions

Post by Raptorman » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:00 pm

Top ten QB's in pay this year and their records for 2018-19. Sorted by best win percentage.

Code: Select all

                                 W       L       T    Total     Win %
1	Drew Brees	$25.00 	15	 2	0	17	0.882
2	Jimmy Garoppolo	$27.50 	 8	 2	0	10	0.800
3	Jared Goff	$33.50 	18	 6	0	24	0.750
4	Russell Wilson	$35 	17	 8	0	25	0.680
5	Kirk Cousins	$28 	14	10	1	25	0.560
6	Aaron Rodgers	$33.50 	13	10	1	24	0.542
7	Ben Roeth.	$34 	 9	 8	1	18	0.500
8	Carson Wentz	$32 	10	10	0	20	0.500
9	M. Stafford	$27 	 9	13	1	23	0.391
10	Matt Ryan	$30 	 8	15	0	23	0.348
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