PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

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CharVike
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by CharVike » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am

PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:11 pm
CharVike wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:23 pm

That's a good point with the QBs. Appears the Ohio ST guy is falling. His lack of experience is a huge issue. Even the top guy is too short. To me that's a red flag and I wouldn't blow the 1st pick on that. But he could be the next Wilson. I hope Speilman sticks to his board. A reach for a greater need is never a good idea, Maybe my minds going bad but this draft to me lacks elite talent. Typically the 1st pick is already in the bag. CBS has the Giants taking QB Jones at 17. That's a 2nd round talent maybe. And for us it's Ford. He's not jumping up the board. But my guess is there will be a better player than him at our spot and we need to take him.
Too short for what? Being a good QB? Winning a SB? Being in the HoF? Whats the cutoff for height? If you dont think Murray can be an awesome QB in the NFL, I dont know what to say. Well I do, but I dont want to get kicked from this great website.

And Ford at 18 would be the BPA and our top need. He is a friggin beast. I cant think of anyone else that would have an immediate effect on our team that would be available at 18. I dont think he will make it though.
I'm not a fan of a 5 10 QB. I like size.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by PurpleMustReign » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 am

CharVike wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:11 pm


Too short for what? Being a good QB? Winning a SB? Being in the HoF? Whats the cutoff for height? If you dont think Murray can be an awesome QB in the NFL, I dont know what to say. Well I do, but I dont want to get kicked from this great website.

And Ford at 18 would be the BPA and our top need. He is a friggin beast. I cant think of anyone else that would have an immediate effect on our team that would be available at 18. I dont think he will make it though.
I'm not a fan of a 5 10 QB. I like size.
I think QB height is very overrated. Flutie and Mayfield (so far) made it work. For me I look at arm strength more than anything. Accuracy and timing can be taught... It's hard to drastically improve arm strength.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by CharVike » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:42 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 am
CharVike wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am

I'm not a fan of a 5 10 QB. I like size.
I think QB height is very overrated. Flutie and Mayfield (so far) made it work. For me I look at arm strength more than anything. Accuracy and timing can be taught... It's hard to drastically improve arm strength.
Flutie? He was a crappy NFL QB. Don't use him as part of your argument. Arm strength is very important. That's why I puked when we picked Teddy.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:54 pm

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 am
CharVike wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 am

I'm not a fan of a 5 10 QB. I like size.
I think QB height is very overrated. Flutie and Mayfield (so far) made it work. For me I look at arm strength more than anything. Accuracy and timing can be taught... It's hard to drastically improve arm strength.
Not gonna lie, Flutie is not a good example. Brees is someone that put the height thing to rest. Flutie not so much
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by VikingLord » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:23 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:54 pm
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 am

I think QB height is very overrated. Flutie and Mayfield (so far) made it work. For me I look at arm strength more than anything. Accuracy and timing can be taught... It's hard to drastically improve arm strength.
Not gonna lie, Flutie is not a good example. Brees is someone that put the height thing to rest. Flutie not so much
Russell Wilson (5'11") put it to rest too. He's had plenty of success and he's slightly shorter than Brees (6'0"). Another popular Vikings QB who had some success is Fran Tarkenton at 6'0".

By comparison, Doug Flutie is 5'10", so we're talking a matter of 2 inches between these four QBs.

I wouldn't have a problem taking a "short" QB if I was confident he knew how to play the position consistently.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:01 pm

CharVike wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:42 am
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 am

I think QB height is very overrated. Flutie and Mayfield (so far) made it work. For me I look at arm strength more than anything. Accuracy and timing can be taught... It's hard to drastically improve arm strength.
Flutie? He was a crappy NFL QB. Don't use him as part of your argument. Arm strength is very important. That's why I puked when we picked Teddy.
Anticipation beats arm strength every day.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:01 pm
CharVike wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:42 am

Flutie? He was a crappy NFL QB. Don't use him as part of your argument. Arm strength is very important. That's why I puked when we picked Teddy.
Anticipation beats arm strength every day.
I don’t feel like teddy really had anticipation if that’s who you’re referring to. There were plenty of times where I can remember him holding the ball in the pocket too long and being strip sacked. Cousins has done the same. It’s just cousins arm talent is far better than Teddy’s ever was
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:01 pm


Anticipation beats arm strength every day.
I don’t feel like teddy really had anticipation if that’s who you’re referring to. There were plenty of times where I can remember him holding the ball in the pocket too long and being strip sacked. Cousins has done the same. It’s just cousins arm talent is far better than Teddy’s ever was
Sometimes, we only see the QB hold the ball. We don't realize that none of our WRs got open. Seeing that this was the CJ, CP era, I believe most of those "hold the ball" moments were because those guys were covered. Additionally, anticipation was one of TB's biggest pluses. His scouting reports all mentioned it was how he got away with having an average arm. He threw earlier than most to make up for an issue with velocity.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:31 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 pm


I don’t feel like teddy really had anticipation if that’s who you’re referring to. There were plenty of times where I can remember him holding the ball in the pocket too long and being strip sacked. Cousins has done the same. It’s just cousins arm talent is far better than Teddy’s ever was
Sometimes, we only see the QB hold the ball. We don't realize that none of our WRs got open. Seeing that this was the CJ, CP era, I believe most of those "hold the ball" moments were because those guys were covered. Additionally, anticipation was one of TB's biggest pluses. His scouting reports all mentioned it was how he got away with having an average arm. He threw earlier than most to make up for an issue with velocity.
I mean you’re right it’s hard to tell given the WRs. However just because diggs and Thielen are elite route runners, it’s doesn’t mean they were open when cousins was getting sacked either. That came to a head when Seattle and New England were doubling and even tripling those WRs at times. Also in the final Chicago game when Thielen and cousins were talking on the sidelines. We as fans never know what’s going on down the field very often. My thing is, with teddy I just never saw him chuck one down the field very often like cousins did vs GB to Diggs, Jets to Thielen, etc. he was much more conservative when it came to throwing deep balls.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by YikesVikes » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:46 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:31 pm
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm


Sometimes, we only see the QB hold the ball. We don't realize that none of our WRs got open. Seeing that this was the CJ, CP era, I believe most of those "hold the ball" moments were because those guys were covered. Additionally, anticipation was one of TB's biggest pluses. His scouting reports all mentioned it was how he got away with having an average arm. He threw earlier than most to make up for an issue with velocity.
I mean you’re right it’s hard to tell given the WRs. However just because diggs and Thielen are elite route runners, it’s doesn’t mean they were open when cousins was getting sacked either. That came to a head when Seattle and New England were doubling and even tripling those WRs at times. Also in the final Chicago game when Thielen and cousins were talking on the sidelines. We as fans never know what’s going on down the field very often. My thing is, with teddy I just never saw him chuck one down the field very often like cousins did vs GB to Diggs, Jets to Thielen, etc. he was much more conservative when it came to throwing deep balls.
I agree with the Teddy statement but two things to keep in mind. 1) We have Kirk in the prime of his career (28 or so) and Teddy was 21. Two different mindsets at QB there. 2) Different OCs and a slight change to the league. Now teams are all about chucking it thanks to guys like Rams coach etc.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:16 am

YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 pm


I don’t feel like teddy really had anticipation if that’s who you’re referring to. There were plenty of times where I can remember him holding the ball in the pocket too long and being strip sacked. Cousins has done the same. It’s just cousins arm talent is far better than Teddy’s ever was
Sometimes, we only see the QB hold the ball. We don't realize that none of our WRs got open. Seeing that this was the CJ, CP era, I believe most of those "hold the ball" moments were because those guys were covered. Additionally, anticipation was one of TB's biggest pluses. His scouting reports all mentioned it was how he got away with having an average arm. He threw earlier than most to make up for an issue with velocity.
Yeah but at some point the QB has to trust his playmakers. That's a big reason why Case had such a good year... He gave his guys a chance and more often than not, they rewarded him.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:19 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:54 pm
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 am

I think QB height is very overrated. Flutie and Mayfield (so far) made it work. For me I look at arm strength more than anything. Accuracy and timing can be taught... It's hard to drastically improve arm strength.
Not gonna lie, Flutie is not a good example. Brees is someone that put the height thing to rest. Flutie not so much
He was on some really bad teams. He had some decent seasons. My point wasn't that he was Hall of fame worthy, it was more that they could play in the NFL even if they are short, and Flutie did that for many years. He saved Buffalo in the 1999 (I think) season as they had horrible qb play until they put him in. He's probably not the best example, but he showed it can be done.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by CharVike » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:48 am

VikingLord wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:23 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:54 pm


Not gonna lie, Flutie is not a good example. Brees is someone that put the height thing to rest. Flutie not so much
Russell Wilson (5'11") put it to rest too. He's had plenty of success and he's slightly shorter than Brees (6'0"). Another popular Vikings QB who had some success is Fran Tarkenton at 6'0".

By comparison, Doug Flutie is 5'10", so we're talking a matter of 2 inches between these four QBs.

I wouldn't have a problem taking a "short" QB if I was confident he knew how to play the position consistently.
Wilson get's all this credit. That team played some D and got some TOs. Wilson's junk INT cost them another SB. I'm a firm believer in size. Size wins. I seen the Phins push our lighter DL right down the field in the SB. It was easy. Yes Ty Detmer became an NFL QB but was junk. Just like Flutie. Murray could turn out to be the best ever. But I wouldn't use the 1st pick on him if I had it. I would try and deal it. But no team will give up the house because the talent isn't there in this draft. There's no A Luck this year or anything close to that level.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by YikesVikes » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:56 am

PurpleMustReign wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:16 am
YikesVikes wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm


Sometimes, we only see the QB hold the ball. We don't realize that none of our WRs got open. Seeing that this was the CJ, CP era, I believe most of those "hold the ball" moments were because those guys were covered. Additionally, anticipation was one of TB's biggest pluses. His scouting reports all mentioned it was how he got away with having an average arm. He threw earlier than most to make up for an issue with velocity.
Yeah but at some point the QB has to trust his playmakers. That's a big reason why Case had such a good year... He gave his guys a chance and more often than not, they rewarded him.
If a guy isn't open, he's not open. If he trust his guys and gets picked... You scream that he can't read defenses.
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Re: PHP's "Draft Day is almost here" Mock

Post by PurpleMustReign » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:44 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:56 am
PurpleMustReign wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:16 am


Yeah but at some point the QB has to trust his playmakers. That's a big reason why Case had such a good year... He gave his guys a chance and more often than not, they rewarded him.
If a guy isn't open, he's not open. If he trust his guys and gets picked... You scream that he can't read defenses.
You know who Adam thielen is right? He's a wide receiver for the Minnesota vikings. He makes a habit of winning the 50/50 balls (or even some of the 10/90 ones) and pretty much catches everything in a 5 yard radius. Good receivers can do that. Tall ones especially. With the right throw, wide receivers will win the majority of the time.
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