Kirk Cousins is having an MVP season

[Pondering Her Percy]

I wish people would stop complaining about the 84 million. It's the going rate for a QB. I am most upset about the length. 3 years puts him back on the market at an even higher rate in 3 years. We got a QB in his prime that has been exceptional. The alternatives were awful choices for a team on the cusp of a superbowl. We should be thanking the football gods we got him for 28.

Agreed 100%. I said this same thing when he signed. This happens with every franchise QB around the league. Joe Flacco was the highest paid QB back in 2011 (?). He's now 10th. Anytime a big time QB requires an extension, they end up passing whoever the current highest paid QB was. You're right, it's the going rate. I mean the Jets were ready to pay him $90 mill guaranteed. Wait until the Wentz's and Goff's get there. Or even Mahomes. They'll end up shattering Cousins.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Oh, I am sure but it looks like the Vikings didn't do much to negotiate a better set-up. Its all for naught if we win a big one. However, I would love the deal if we got him for 5 years.

The deal would certainly be less painful if it was for 5. In 3 years, if he is playing well, I don't want to think about what it will cost to sign him. If he isn't playing well, I don't want to sign him. Bad spot for the Vikes, so hopefully he wins us the big one before then.

Even if we dont win one but are in legit contention every year (which granted would be upsetting but still), I would easily re-sign him again. You dont just let him walk and draft a QB. Chances are, we're picking in the back end of the first every year. So the chances of us landing a legit QB late, are probably fairly slim. We would go from legit contention every year with Cousins and continue to be on the verge of a SB, to probably being around .500 at best and getting a wild card if we're lucky. As long as he keeps playing well and we are always contending, keep the guy for as long as we can. We are very fortunate to have the roster to land him. Spielman has done a great job building this roster and we are finally the team where players WANT to go. The Jets are not. Unless he drastically craps the bed, which I dont see at all given his consistency over his career, I keep him for a long time

[Pondering Her Percy]

Agreed. I think the main question with Teddy was yeah, his knee but you mention the franchise couldnt rely on him SIMPLY due to his knee. Is it that simple? That's the only reason we couldnt rely on him? That is the part I dont believe. He didnt show me enough promise to give him another shot, regardless of the knee. This is a SB caliber roster. We have never won one. There is no more effin around. We need to get the best players we can out on this field to win a SB. We have our key players locked up for 3 more years and beyond. That is what Philly just did. You thought we were in cap hell? Philly was under $100,000 the past few years. Sometimes near the negative. But they got it done.

Isn't that how we felt about the roster going into 2016? That it was a Super Bowl caliber team and that Teddy was a key part to that team? Then in 2018 they let him walk.

In between the only thing that changed was the knee injury. You can pretend like it is more than that to make you feel better about spending almost 4-5 times more on our current QB, but the reality is that Teddy lost his starting job to injury.

He did lose it for that reason. You keep saying that but I never denied it. Clearly the injury was why he lost his job. But at the same time, healthy or not, he still didnt show me a whole lot from a pure QB perspective. I mean do you think his throwing ability is anywhere NEAR Cousins? No. Not deep ball, not accuracy, not release, not vision, not QB smarts, etc. He had mobility over Cousins. That was about it. And either way, he was tied for 4th in sacks taken in 2015 with 44. Cousins is on a similar pace. And look at the numbers. Cousins first two years starting in Washington when he had a pretty good OL, he was sacked 23 and 26 times. Last year his OL got roasted with injuries and gave up 41 sacks. He's on pace for another 41 this year. So when he has a good OL, it's not like he's holding onto the ball too long. If he was, those numbers would be higher his first two years starting in Washington. If Teddy was so mobile and could elude sacks, I dont think he'd be as high as 44 sacks. The OL in 2015 wasnt a whole lot worse than the one we have now.

Cousins trumps him in just about every category out there. Many of them by a WIDE margin. Point is, the two arent even close talent wise. Not even comparable. No argument. Which is why I take Cousins any day of the week regardless of contract

[StumpHunter]

I wish people would stop complaining about the 84 million. It's the going rate for a QB. I am most upset about the length. 3 years puts him back on the market at an even higher rate in 3 years. We got a QB in his prime that has been exceptional. The alternatives were awful choices for a team on the cusp of a superbowl. We should be thanking the football gods we got him for 28.

Agreed 100%. I said this same thing when he signed. This happens with every franchise QB around the league. Joe Flacco was the highest paid QB back in 2011 (?). He's now 10th. Anytime a big time QB requires an extension, they end up passing whoever the current highest paid QB was. You're right, it's the going rate. I mean the Jets were ready to pay him $90 mill guaranteed. Wait until the Wentz's and Goff's get there. Or even Mahomes. They'll end up shattering Cousins.

Flacco's 10th now because of the length of his contract. Cousins will likely always be in the top 5 because he only signed for 3 years.

[StumpHunter]

The deal would certainly be less painful if it was for 5. In 3 years, if he is playing well, I don't want to think about what it will cost to sign him. If he isn't playing well, I don't want to sign him. Bad spot for the Vikes, so hopefully he wins us the big one before then.

Even if we dont win one but are in legit contention every year (which granted would be upsetting but still), I would easily re-sign him again. You dont just let him walk and draft a QB. Chances are, we're picking in the back end of the first every year. So the chances of us landing a legit QB late, are probably fairly slim. We would go from legit contention every year with Cousins and continue to be on the verge of a SB, to probably being around .500 at best and getting a wild card if we're lucky. As long as he keeps playing well and we are always contending, keep the guy for as long as we can. We are very fortunate to have the roster to land him. Spielman has done a great job building this roster and we are finally the team where players WANT to go. The Jets are not. Unless he drastically craps the bed, which I dont see at all given his consistency over his career, I keep him for a long time

If we are in SB contention every year Cousins is here, Rick would be a fool not to try and extend him. I just don't like how much that will cost us because of the 3 year deal versus what a 5 year deal would have gotten us.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Agreed 100%. I said this same thing when he signed. This happens with every franchise QB around the league. Joe Flacco was the highest paid QB back in 2011 (?). He's now 10th. Anytime a big time QB requires an extension, they end up passing whoever the current highest paid QB was. You're right, it's the going rate. I mean the Jets were ready to pay him $90 mill guaranteed. Wait until the Wentz's and Goff's get there. Or even Mahomes. They'll end up shattering Cousins.

Flacco's 10th now because of the length of his contract. Cousins will likely always be in the top 5 because he only signed for 3 years.

Right but again, at the time, Flacco was the highest paid. It's a new QB every year. Or a couple new ones per year. QB money is always going to increase. Bottom line is, this was how we could get Cousins here by offering what we did. It worked. I'm happy

[Pondering Her Percy]

Even if we dont win one but are in legit contention every year (which granted would be upsetting but still), I would easily re-sign him again. You dont just let him walk and draft a QB. Chances are, we're picking in the back end of the first every year. So the chances of us landing a legit QB late, are probably fairly slim. We would go from legit contention every year with Cousins and continue to be on the verge of a SB, to probably being around .500 at best and getting a wild card if we're lucky. As long as he keeps playing well and we are always contending, keep the guy for as long as we can. We are very fortunate to have the roster to land him. Spielman has done a great job building this roster and we are finally the team where players WANT to go. The Jets are not. Unless he drastically craps the bed, which I dont see at all given his consistency over his career, I keep him for a long time

If we are in SB contention every year Cousins is here, Rick would be a fool not to try and extend him. I just don't like how much that will cost us because of the 3 year deal versus what a 5 year deal would have gotten us.

Right but what are we going to do? The contract is set. Right now we're contending with the top teams. And we'll really know when playoffs hit.

[S197]

The deal would certainly be less painful if it was for 5. In 3 years, if he is playing well, I don't want to think about what it will cost to sign him. If he isn't playing well, I don't want to sign him. Bad spot for the Vikes, so hopefully he wins us the big one before then.

I'd love to see them draft a QB in the first 3 rounds next year to actually groom and prepare for the possibility that he walks and worst case have a better backup.

Me too (a 4th rounder would be okay too). But based on Spielman's drafting history, I wouldn't hold your breath. I don't think we've ever taken a backup QB in the mid-rounds under Spielman. I recall looking into this once and the last one was John David Booty an eternity ago. The only other guy was Joe Webb, who was really drafted as a WR and a late round pick.

[StumpHunter]

He had mobility over Cousins. That was about it.

He was a second year QB. Cousins probably has better vision and accuracy (Teddy was graded as the most accurate passer in 2015, btw) than Mahomes, Trubiskey and Watson, but not one of those teams would make a straight up trade for Cousins, based on their potential. Cousins release will be the worst in the NFL until he stops patting the ball before he throws and that release is the reason for all the batted balls at the line. Teddy admittedly had a poor deep ball in 2015, and his completion percentage was 26 % on throws over 20 yards. It was better as a rookie, but he had more time to throw as a rookie. Cousins was significantly better in his 4th year in 2015, at 29%. He completed 4 whole more deep passes than Teddy that year, despite throwing the ball over 100 times more. I guess QBs can improve in that area, which is mostly a product of the personnel around the QB anyway.

The OL in 2015 wasnt a whole lot worse than the one we have now.

Then we are screwed because rookie Clemmings, Matt Kahlil, and Brandon Fusco were just plain awful in 2015. That means we need to replace 2 tackles and a guard before next season with no cap space. Dang, you have me depressed.

[Pondering Her Percy]

He was a second year QB. Cousins probably has better vision and accuracy (Teddy was graded as the most accurate passer in 2015, btw) than Mahomes, Trubiskey and Watson, but not one of those teams would make a straight up trade for Cousins, based on their potential. Cousins release will be the worst in the NFL until he stops patting the ball before he throws and that release is the reason for all the batted balls at the line. Teddy admittedly had a poor deep ball in 2015, and his completion percentage was 26 % on throws over 20 yards. It was better as a rookie, but he had more time to throw as a rookie. Cousins was significantly better in his 4th year in 2015, at 29%. He completed 4 whole more deep passes than Teddy that year, despite throwing the ball over 100 times more. I guess QBs can improve in that area, which is mostly a product of the personnel around the QB anyway.

lol dude because look at how Mahomes, Trubisky and Watson (more so in his first year) are performing in their second years!!! Are you really going to compare Teddy to Mahomes this year, Trubisky this year, or Watson either year? This is what depresses me. That you're still sitting here defending a guy that has a career 28:23 TD:INT in two seasons, destroyed his knee and honestly never showed enough to warrant him being a legit franchise QB. No less you're putting his name with guys like Mahomes, Trubisky and Watson. They have all already shattered Teddy's whopping 14 TD total (year 1 and 2) through 10 weeks. In the end, Teddy isnt comparable to Cousins, Mahomes, Trubisky or Watson. Not even close. So this is why I dont understand why you keep defending him. You're hanging your hat on "what if's".

Then we are screwed because rookie Clemmings, Matt Kahlil, and Brandon Fusco were just plain awful in 2015. That means we need to replace 2 tackles and a guard before next season with no cap space. Dang, you have me depressed.

You know exactly what I mean but I guess I'll explain anyways. Early in the year, Reiff was awful, Hill has been awful and finally benched, Compton has been awful, Remmers has been below average and we didnt have Elflein for the first two weeks. So yeah, it hasnt been great. Reiff turned it around, ONeill is finally starting, and Elflein has looked good. We need guards. If you didnt know that already, I dont know what to tell you.

[StumpHunter]

He was a second year QB. Cousins probably has better vision and accuracy (Teddy was graded as the most accurate passer in 2015, btw) than Mahomes, Trubiskey and Watson, but not one of those teams would make a straight up trade for Cousins, based on their potential. Cousins release will be the worst in the NFL until he stops patting the ball before he throws and that release is the reason for all the batted balls at the line. Teddy admittedly had a poor deep ball in 2015, and his completion percentage was 26 % on throws over 20 yards. It was better as a rookie, but he had more time to throw as a rookie. Cousins was significantly better in his 4th year in 2015, at 29%. He completed 4 whole more deep passes than Teddy that year, despite throwing the ball over 100 times more. I guess QBs can improve in that area, which is mostly a product of the personnel around the QB anyway.

lol dude because look at how Mahomes, Trubisky and Watson (more so in his first year) are performing in their second years!!! Are you really going to compare Teddy to Mahomes this year, Trubisky this year, or Watson either year? This is what depresses me. That you're still sitting here defending a guy that has a career 28:23 TD:INT in two seasons, destroyed his knee and honestly never showed enough to warrant him being a legit franchise QB. No less you're putting his name with guys like Mahomes, Trubisky and Watson. They have all already shattered Teddy's whopping 14 TD total (year 1 and 2) through 10 weeks. In the end, Teddy isnt comparable to Cousins, Mahomes, Trubisky or Watson. Not even close. So this is why I dont understand why you keep defending him. You're hanging your hat on "what if's".

Then we are screwed because rookie Clemmings, Matt Kahlil, and Brandon Fusco were just plain awful in 2015. That means we need to replace 2 tackles and a guard before next season with no cap space. Dang, you have me depressed.

You know exactly what I mean but I guess I'll explain anyways. Early in the year, Reiff was awful, Hill has been awful and finally benched, Compton has been awful, Remmers has been below average and we didnt have Elflein for the first two weeks. So yeah, it hasnt been great. Reiff turned it around, ONeill is finally starting, and Elflein has looked good. We need guards. If you didnt know that already, I dont know what to tell you.

Yea, because Teddy was in near the situation those three are in. Be reasonable.

You said the Oline was nearly as bad this year as 2015, those were the guys on the 2015 line. We are screwed if you weren't exaggerating how bad our current line is.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yea, because Teddy was in near the situation those three are in. Be reasonable.

How was he not?!! Trubisky and Watson are two years in and started most of their rookie year and all of their 2nd year. Their second year isn’t even over yet and they’ve already drastically outplayed Teddy in his first two years. Mahomes sat behind Alex smith for a year but was a much better pure passer than Teddy coming out regardless. His first year starting, he’s thrown for more tds than Teddy did in 2 years. That’s sad. Teddy has 28 in 29 games. Mahomes has 31 in 10 games lol. How about be reasonable when you’re throwing out any kind of comparisons.

You said the Oline was nearly as bad this year as 2015, those were the guys on the 2015 line. We are screwed if you weren't exaggerating how bad our current line is.

Our guards are not good at all. And if Reiff plays like he did in the first four weeks, yeah that’s 3 bad lineman. We had 3 really bad ones in 2015. Right now we have two really bad ones. And one that has turned inconsistent. So yeah it’s not very far off. No exaggeration there. We have more promise with this OL due to Elflein and Oneill but outside of that, the rest are a toss up

[StumpHunter]

How was he not?!! Trubisky and Watson are two years in and started most of their rookie year and all of their 2nd year. Their second year isn’t even over yet and they’ve already drastically outplayed Teddy in his first two years. Mahomes sat behind Alex smith for a year but was a much better pure passer than Teddy coming out regardless. His first year starting, he’s thrown for more tds than Teddy did in 2 years. That’s sad. Teddy has 28 in 29 games. Mahomes has 31 in 10 games lol. How about be reasonable when you’re throwing out any kind of comparisons.

Talking about offensive situations...Why would I be referring to how long they have been in the league or how many games they have played?

I won't say Teddy in those offenses would be doing as well as those 3 guys, I can't say that for certain and I especially think Mahomes is a special player who should be a Viking (screw Bradford), but if he were asked to throw more, especially in the red zone to Hopkins or Robinson, he would have had more yards and TDs. He had the fewest attempts in the NFL in 2015 to go along with the fewest attempts in the red zone. That is the reason for the lack of production more than anything. It is tough to throw for yards and TDs when you are handing off to AP.

Our guards are not good at all. And if Reiff plays like he did in the first four weeks, yeah that’s 3 bad lineman. We had 3 really bad ones in 2015. Right now we have two really bad ones. And one that has turned inconsistent. So yeah it’s not very far off. No exaggeration there. We have more promise with this OL due to Elflein and Oneill but outside of that, the rest are a toss up

Okay, so back to being screwed. That 2015 line had 3 of the worst pass blocking linemen the Vikings have ever put on the field. How do you improve dramatically at 3 spots on the line (assuming Oneil pans out), with no cap space while drafting in the 20s?

[YikesVikes]

What, you don't think a guy who was a TE for much of his college career is the answer? Have you not seen how well Sloter has done against guys who are no longer in the league in pre-season?

Agree on drafting a QB early if the right one is there. Historically, that is how you get your franchise guy and the lack of draft capital used on QB's in this franchise is the reason we are constantly signing one and two year rentals. 3 1st round draft picks used on QBs in how many decades?

Nothing against Sloter but lets just say ... he's not a sure thing

They haven't historically been good at investing and when they have they have had some bad luck or picks that didn't pan out. Not to mention that I do overall agree with what you say about a QB (or any single player, really) making too much money on a team. Having a young QB doing well on the cheap is great - if you can actually hit on one. It's just not something you can count on ... but you should definitely be at least trying. I don't think this front office has done that enough.

We've invested pennies and gotten dollars. Invest more and you typically will be better off.
Vikings 1st round QBs in the last 30 years:

Cullpepper
Ponder
Bridewater

I would say 2 of the 3 looked good. Ponder was a bomb because we decided that drafting the 4th player from one position in 11 picks was a good idea. I could have told you from the start that it would take a miracle for the guy to be a gem. Rarely does a draft net you 4 good players at one position in less than 1 round. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[YikesVikes]

I wish people would stop complaining about the 84 million. It's the going rate for a QB. I am most upset about the length. 3 years puts him back on the market at an even higher rate in 3 years. We got a QB in his prime that has been exceptional. The alternatives were awful choices for a team on the cusp of a superbowl. We should be thanking the football gods we got him for 28.

Agreed 100%. I said this same thing when he signed. This happens with every franchise QB around the league. Joe Flacco was the highest paid QB back in 2011 (?). He's now 10th. Anytime a big time QB requires an extension, they end up passing whoever the current highest paid QB was. You're right, it's the going rate. I mean the Jets were ready to pay him $90 mill guaranteed. Wait until the Wentz's and Goff's get there. Or even Mahomes. They'll end up shattering Cousins.

People are acting like it's unheard of. Jimm G got 27. Stafford got 27. We paid 28. The guys that got 18 have real question marks that Kirk doesn't. Case as great as he was, had 1 season of play at a level that is the average for Cousins. We made the right choice and I would think the first half of the season would have been proof enough.