Wright Released

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J. Kapp 11
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Re: Wright Released

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:08 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
soflavike wrote:
Yeah, it's the "sunk cost fallacy"... he's under rookie contract... give him one more year... but he does take up a roster spot that could be filled with a better receiver. The Vikes signed a couple in free agency. Hmmm.
Well I mean Wright has a legit shot for playing time. King is a fringe guy at best. Either way, no matter what the production is, you don’t see nfl teams give up on a first round pick after two years. Unless it’s for legal reasons or serious injury. And I’ve said before, if AT or Diggs weren’t on this team, he’d be getting a lot more playing time and we’d have a much better judgement of him. IMO, Treadwell is a mystery to me. Which is part of the reason why I don’t call him a bust until I see more or he gets legitimate playing time either here or on another team. If a guy like Jerome Simpson or Michael Jenkins we’re still starting over him, then yeah he would probably be a bust. Because it shows he has little talent. Or if he started week after week and wasn’t producing. But neither of those are the case. It’s a very unique situation.

I want to see Treadwell in a full time starting role to see what he can do. But that won’t happen as long as those 2 others are here. So we really might not see the true Treadwell until he is on a WR needy team. Zimmer can say Treadwell has gotten “opportunities” all he wants but he’s never going to surpass Diggs or AT so it’s really hard to showcase your talents when they are in front of you gobbling up targets. Along with Rudy and our RB. This is simply the reason I won’t call him a bust. “Busts” like ponder and Williamson all got legit shots at starting roles. Started over 30 games. I think Treadwell has started like 8. That’s a very small sample size to classify a guy as a bust. There is no other situation in the nfl like his.

Even a guy like Kevin white. He can be classified as a bust but because of the injury aspect. He’s only been active 5 games in 3 years. A guy like Williamson, yeah he’s a bust because he started 30 games and was terrible. Treadwell has had neither of those situations. He was banged up a little but nothing serious. And he’s only started 8 games due to Thielen and Diggs. If Thielen didn’t blow up, Treadwell would’ve been a starter halfway through his rookie year.

So it’s tough. I’m not saying the guy is legit. But I’m not saying he’s bad. I’m saying I don’t know and that’s why I won’t call him a bust. I want to see him start multiple games. He won’t here barring injury. But if he goes to a team that needs WRs and fails to perform then he’s a bust. If he blows up, then he wasn’t a bust. But we might not know until he’s on a new team. That’s all
I'm pretty much ready to call Treadwell a bust. He'll get this season to prove himself, but it doesn't look good.

And while he's not top-2 on the Vikings, he did get playing time. At 500, his snap count was third-highest among receivers on the Vikings, and twice as many as Jarius Wright, who had virtually the same stats. Diggs only out-snapped him by 190. Obviously that's because Stefon missed some injury time, but look at the comparative production.

The knock on Treadwell is that he can't get separation. He can't get open. Quarterbacks don't want to throw contested balls all the time, and that's why he's not getting a lot of targets. Maybe DeFilippo can help. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. If Treadwell doesn't turn it around this year, then he's definitely a bust.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:28 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: I'm pretty much ready to call Treadwell a bust. He'll get this season to prove himself, but it doesn't look good.

And while he's not top-2 on the Vikings, he did get playing time. At 500, his snap count was third-highest among receivers on the Vikings, and twice as many as Jarius Wright, who had virtually the same stats. Diggs only out-snapped him by 190. Obviously that's because Stefon missed some injury time, but look at the comparative production.

The knock on Treadwell is that he can't get separation. He can't get open. Quarterbacks don't want to throw contested balls all the time, and that's why he's not getting a lot of targets. Maybe DeFilippo can help. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. If Treadwell doesn't turn it around this year, then he's definitely a bust.
I mean I get what you're saying but again, it's judging off a small sample size. And I specifically remember two plays where he was wide open against Baltimore and Washington and it wasnt thrown his way. That's not on Treadwell, thats on Case. I also mentioned in regards to the snaps, that Treadwell was in on a TON of running plays due to his great blocking. Where that wasnt even close to being the case for Wright. So those numbers are definitely skewed. Wright was in on a lot of 3rd down passing situations. Treadwell had a monster chunk of his snaps on running plays. Big difference there.

Again, does it look good? No. How can anyone say it does look good? I mean Adam Thielen and Diggs are still here. But like I said, I wont call him a bust until I see more. When I look at a bust, I want to see a player show me that they are incapable of playing at an NFL level. Start a good chunk of games because when you do, it shows whether you can or cant get it done. When you're hiding behind two studs, that is hard to see.

I guess my question is, what if we trade him next year to a WR needy team and he blows up? He's a "bust" in Vikings fans eyes but is he really a "bust" overall? It would go back to my point of who we have in front of him. Again, I owe nothing to Laquon Treadwell. I have no reason to "support him". So why would I have a problem saying he's a bust? Because I havent seen enough of him to give him that label. Period. The guy could turn into a stud or the guy could be a bum. I dont know! I'm just saying that I am patient enough as not just a Vikings fan but as a football fan to give the guy some time. And even give the guy a shot on another team that could utilize him better than we can.

Many fans just look for numbers. That's all they care about. "Oh you didnt score 8 TDs your rookie year and light the league on fire? Well you suck, you're a bust". Until they see numbers, he's a bust in their eyes. And it's highly doubtful those numbers come here of all places. I follow him on instagram and every post the guy makes he has nut job fans commenting "bust", "you suck", "have fun riding the bench", etc. Those are the type of fans I'm referring to.

I get that he hasnt done much. I've looked at the numbers plenty of times. All I'm saying is, he needs to show me that he cant get it done in this league. Without being overshadowed by two studs. If he went to a team like the Redskins, Ravens, Panthers, Browns, etc. that need WR help and STILL cant get on the field, then yeah he's a bust. I have no problem admitting that. But if he goes there and blows up, the whole overshadowing by Diggs and Thielen would prove to be true.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Vikefan60 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:06 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote: I'm pretty much ready to call Treadwell a bust. He'll get this season to prove himself, but it doesn't look good.

And while he's not top-2 on the Vikings, he did get playing time. At 500, his snap count was third-highest among receivers on the Vikings, and twice as many as Jarius Wright, who had virtually the same stats. Diggs only out-snapped him by 190. Obviously that's because Stefon missed some injury time, but look at the comparative production.

The knock on Treadwell is that he can't get separation. He can't get open. Quarterbacks don't want to throw contested balls all the time, and that's why he's not getting a lot of targets. Maybe DeFilippo can help. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. If Treadwell doesn't turn it around this year, then he's definitely a bust.
I mean I get what you're saying but again, it's judging off a small sample size. And I specifically remember two plays where he was wide open against Baltimore and Washington and it wasnt thrown his way. That's not on Treadwell, thats on Case. I also mentioned in regards to the snaps, that Treadwell was in on a TON of running plays due to his great blocking. Where that wasnt even close to being the case for Wright. So those numbers are definitely skewed. Wright was in on a lot of 3rd down passing situations. Treadwell had a monster chunk of his snaps on running plays. Big difference there.

Again, does it look good? No. How can anyone say it does look good? I mean Adam Thielen and Diggs are still here. But like I said, I wont call him a bust until I see more. When I look at a bust, I want to see a player show me that they are incapable of playing at an NFL level. Start a good chunk of games because when you do, it shows whether you can or cant get it done. When you're hiding behind two studs, that is hard to see.

I guess my question is, what if we trade him next year to a WR needy team and he blows up? He's a "bust" in Vikings fans eyes but is he really a "bust" overall? It would go back to my point of who we have in front of him. Again, I owe nothing to Laquon Treadwell. I have no reason to "support him". So why would I have a problem saying he's a bust? Because I havent seen enough of him to give him that label. Period. The guy could turn into a stud or the guy could be a bum. I dont know! I'm just saying that I am patient enough as not just a Vikings fan but as a football fan to give the guy some time. And even give the guy a shot on another team that could utilize him better than we can.

Many fans just look for numbers. That's all they care about. "Oh you didnt score 8 TDs your rookie year and light the league on fire? Well you suck, you're a bust". Until they see numbers, he's a bust in their eyes. And it's highly doubtful those numbers come here of all places. I follow him on instagram and every post the guy makes he has nut job fans commenting "bust", "you suck", "have fun riding the bench", etc. Those are the type of fans I'm referring to.

I get that he hasnt done much. I've looked at the numbers plenty of times. All I'm saying is, he needs to show me that he cant get it done in this league. Without being overshadowed by two studs. If he went to a team like the Redskins, Ravens, Panthers, Browns, etc. that need WR help and STILL cant get on the field, then yeah he's a bust. I have no problem admitting that. But if he goes there and blows up, the whole overshadowing by Diggs and Thielen would prove to be true.
I tend to agree with you. With our injury ridden, musical chairs at QB; Treadwell just hasn't seen enough throws to really reach a conclusion. If Sam had remained healthy this year, Treadwell may have been found on a lot more plays and had better stats. Our staff clearly wasn't sold on Case as an elite QB, so some of the source of Treadwell's low performance may have been Case just not getting to him in the reads. The Oline was a contributor later in the season, but not early. With Kirk having a full off season and staying healthy all year, Treadwell may do much better. Especially if we invest heavily in Oline in two weeks and don't get distracted by shiny, flashy propects that don't have the words Guart, Tackle or Center in their position descriptions.

I place zero value in Zim's public comments. He may secretly love Treadwell and is just trying to give him that extra kick in the butt to get him to the next level. Zim hasn't had a record of treating his guys with velvet gloves, and it seems that all of them really like that. Hard to argue with success.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by 808vikingsfan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:04 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:The knock on Treadwell is that he can't get separation. He can't get open. Quarterbacks don't want to throw contested balls all the time, and that's why he's not getting a lot of targets. Maybe DeFilippo can help. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. If Treadwell doesn't turn it around this year, then he's definitely a bust.
Is this true? I remember reading otherwise during the season.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:45 am

Vikefan60 wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote: I'm pretty much ready to call Treadwell a bust. He'll get this season to prove himself, but it doesn't look good.

And while he's not top-2 on the Vikings, he did get playing time. At 500, his snap count was third-highest among receivers on the Vikings, and twice as many as Jarius Wright, who had virtually the same stats. Diggs only out-snapped him by 190. Obviously that's because Stefon missed some injury time, but look at the comparative production.

The knock on Treadwell is that he can't get separation. He can't get open. Quarterbacks don't want to throw contested balls all the time, and that's why he's not getting a lot of targets. Maybe DeFilippo can help. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. If Treadwell doesn't turn it around this year, then he's definitely a bust.
I mean I get what you're saying but again, it's judging off a small sample size. And I specifically remember two plays where he was wide open against Baltimore and Washington and it wasnt thrown his way. That's not on Treadwell, thats on Case. I also mentioned in regards to the snaps, that Treadwell was in on a TON of running plays due to his great blocking. Where that wasnt even close to being the case for Wright. So those numbers are definitely skewed. Wright was in on a lot of 3rd down passing situations. Treadwell had a monster chunk of his snaps on running plays. Big difference there.

Again, does it look good? No. How can anyone say it does look good? I mean Adam Thielen and Diggs are still here. But like I said, I wont call him a bust until I see more. When I look at a bust, I want to see a player show me that they are incapable of playing at an NFL level. Start a good chunk of games because when you do, it shows whether you can or cant get it done. When you're hiding behind two studs, that is hard to see.

I guess my question is, what if we trade him next year to a WR needy team and he blows up? He's a "bust" in Vikings fans eyes but is he really a "bust" overall? It would go back to my point of who we have in front of him. Again, I owe nothing to Laquon Treadwell. I have no reason to "support him". So why would I have a problem saying he's a bust? Because I havent seen enough of him to give him that label. Period. The guy could turn into a stud or the guy could be a bum. I dont know! I'm just saying that I am patient enough as not just a Vikings fan but as a football fan to give the guy some time. And even give the guy a shot on another team that could utilize him better than we can.

Many fans just look for numbers. That's all they care about. "Oh you didnt score 8 TDs your rookie year and light the league on fire? Well you suck, you're a bust". Until they see numbers, he's a bust in their eyes. And it's highly doubtful those numbers come here of all places. I follow him on instagram and every post the guy makes he has nut job fans commenting "bust", "you suck", "have fun riding the bench", etc. Those are the type of fans I'm referring to.

I get that he hasnt done much. I've looked at the numbers plenty of times. All I'm saying is, he needs to show me that he cant get it done in this league. Without being overshadowed by two studs. If he went to a team like the Redskins, Ravens, Panthers, Browns, etc. that need WR help and STILL cant get on the field, then yeah he's a bust. I have no problem admitting that. But if he goes there and blows up, the whole overshadowing by Diggs and Thielen would prove to be true.
I tend to agree with you. With our injury ridden, musical chairs at QB; Treadwell just hasn't seen enough throws to really reach a conclusion. If Sam had remained healthy this year, Treadwell may have been found on a lot more plays and had better stats. Our staff clearly wasn't sold on Case as an elite QB, so some of the source of Treadwell's low performance may have been Case just not getting to him in the reads. The Oline was a contributor later in the season, but not early. With Kirk having a full off season and staying healthy all year, Treadwell may do much better. Especially if we invest heavily in Oline in two weeks and don't get distracted by shiny, flashy propects that don't have the words Guart, Tackle or Center in their position descriptions.

I place zero value in Zim's public comments. He may secretly love Treadwell and is just trying to give him that extra kick in the butt to get him to the next level. Zim hasn't had a record of treating his guys with velvet gloves, and it seems that all of them really like that. Hard to argue with success.
Good points, I agree
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:45 am

808vikingsfan wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:The knock on Treadwell is that he can't get separation. He can't get open. Quarterbacks don't want to throw contested balls all the time, and that's why he's not getting a lot of targets. Maybe DeFilippo can help. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. If Treadwell doesn't turn it around this year, then he's definitely a bust.
Is this true? I remember reading otherwise during the season.
I dont know if I remember reading that either. Like I said, I saw at least two plays (which I'm sure there were more) where he was wide open and wasnt thrown to
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Re: Wright Released

Post by S197 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:48 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:The knock on Treadwell is that he can't get separation. He can't get open. Quarterbacks don't want to throw contested balls all the time, and that's why he's not getting a lot of targets. Maybe DeFilippo can help. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. If Treadwell doesn't turn it around this year, then he's definitely a bust.
Is this true? I remember reading otherwise during the season.
I think it's a combination, he's not a crisp route runner and that in turn hurts his ability to get separation. It also hurts on timing routes, there was a key third down pass last year where he ran a rather poor out route and it resulted in an incompletion because where he was compared to where he should have been was off. Stuff like that. My take anyway.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by 808vikingsfan » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:32 pm

S197 wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
J. Kapp 11 wrote:The knock on Treadwell is that he can't get separation. He can't get open. Quarterbacks don't want to throw contested balls all the time, and that's why he's not getting a lot of targets. Maybe DeFilippo can help. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. If Treadwell doesn't turn it around this year, then he's definitely a bust.
Is this true? I remember reading otherwise during the season.
I think it's a combination, he's not a crisp route runner and that in turn hurts his ability to get separation. It also hurts on timing routes, there was a key third down pass last year where he ran a rather poor out route and it resulted in an incompletion because where he was compared to where he should have been was off. Stuff like that. My take anyway.
Re watched the first game last year. Surprisingly, he was in there on most of the passing downs. Treadwell was getting open on the short to mid routes but seemed like he was having a hard time getting separation on some of the deeper routes. But yeah, maybe he's getting open but just not at the right time. To be fair, Bradford only looked at him once all game and it was a completion for a first down.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:23 pm

808vikingsfan wrote:
Re watched the first game last year. Surprisingly, he was in there on most of the passing downs. Treadwell was getting open on the short to mid routes but seemed like he was having a hard time getting separation on some of the deeper routes. But yeah, maybe he's getting open but just not at the right time. To be fair, Bradford only looked at him once all game and it was a completion for a first down.
See and that’s what’s tough. He’s like the 4th read so that makes it tough as well. Could be why Bradford didn’t look his way. I mean if he’s the 4th read, just one of 3 reads ahead of him needs to be open and the pass is thrown. Like I said, he might not ever reach his potential here. No matter what, Thielen and Diggs are the top 2 reads along with Rudy. And then you add in our RB that really limits Treadwell a opportunities
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Re: Wright Released

Post by YikesVikes » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:29 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
Re watched the first game last year. Surprisingly, he was in there on most of the passing downs. Treadwell was getting open on the short to mid routes but seemed like he was having a hard time getting separation on some of the deeper routes. But yeah, maybe he's getting open but just not at the right time. To be fair, Bradford only looked at him once all game and it was a completion for a first down.
See and that’s what’s tough. He’s like the 4th read so that makes it tough as well. Could be why Bradford didn’t look his way. I mean if he’s the 4th read, just one of 3 reads ahead of him needs to be open and the pass is thrown. Like I said, he might not ever reach his potential here. No matter what, Thielen and Diggs are the top 2 reads along with Rudy. And then you add in our RB that really limits Treadwell a opportunities
But that's not how NFL plays are drawn up. One player isn't constantly the 4th read. Typically it's position on the field based and teams don't always Clump their best WRs together. On any given play, he can be the first to last read. Some players have plays specifically called for them more often (your stars) but Treadwell gets a fine amount of 1st to 3rd option reads when he is on the field.
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Re: Wright Released

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:52 pm

YikesVikes wrote:
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
808vikingsfan wrote:
Re watched the first game last year. Surprisingly, he was in there on most of the passing downs. Treadwell was getting open on the short to mid routes but seemed like he was having a hard time getting separation on some of the deeper routes. But yeah, maybe he's getting open but just not at the right time. To be fair, Bradford only looked at him once all game and it was a completion for a first down.
See and that’s what’s tough. He’s like the 4th read so that makes it tough as well. Could be why Bradford didn’t look his way. I mean if he’s the 4th read, just one of 3 reads ahead of him needs to be open and the pass is thrown. Like I said, he might not ever reach his potential here. No matter what, Thielen and Diggs are the top 2 reads along with Rudy. And then you add in our RB that really limits Treadwell a opportunities
But that's not how NFL plays are drawn up. One player isn't constantly the 4th read. Typically it's position on the field based and teams don't always Clump their best WRs together. On any given play, he can be the first to last read. Some players have plays specifically called for them more often (your stars) but Treadwell gets a fine amount of 1st to 3rd option reads when he is on the field.
First option reads? Idk where you’re seeing that or knowing that but I doubt it happens often
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