NFC Championship Reaction Thread

[Mothman]

I'm not saying Zimmer *can't* coach in big games but judging past stats and what I've seen with him as a Viking it's not looking good. He's certainly done well enough to keep his job (and me not complain about it) but the playoffs will make me nervous with him at the helm - at least until he proves otherwise.

I think we can all agree it's not fair to view a coordinator's record the same way as we view a head coach's record but it's not insignificant that in his entire 18 year history as a defensive coordinator and head coach Zimmer's been on the winning end of just one playoff game (out of 9).

Anyway, the games as head coach should carry much more weight for obvious reasons but we all know defensive coordinators play significant roles. This isn't the first time Zimmer's been running a top defense that gave up a bunch of points in the postseason. As Kapp pointed out above, offensive performance and other factors can influence those defensive performances but even though the significance of those pre-Vikings games is limited, they aren't entirely insignificant. He has essentially employed the same defensive approach over all that time so the history of Zimmer's defenses is worth examining. Maybe his defensive philosophy is effective over the course of a regular season against varying levels of competition but simply has it's limitations and gets exposed a little more against better teams in the postseason?

[germannorseman]

Completely disagree. Find me a better coach out there right now than Mike Zimmer. Not gonna happen. I can understand if we went 4-12 but we won the NFC North, went 13-3 and were one game away from the Super Bowl. To say he needs to go is asinine. He took this team from the bottom all the way up to legitimate contenders.

Well, for starters, the eagles coach

Uh ok? And how do you expect him to get on our staff? Point is, you arent finding a better coach out there right now than Mike Zimmer

I don't know of any myself. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. He did bring us the a championship game. I do see a serious fault that apparently other coaches found. He's not good at making adjustments. For about 3-4 games teams figured out how to throw to the middle of the field and Zim had no answer for that. If we can figure that out this D will be in beatable.

My biggest concern is the offense again. Yes we had a better year, but Im still not happy about QB. God bless Case but I'm not convinced yet. The offense just seemed lacking at the end of the year and couldn't put teams away.

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[germannorseman]

I like Zimmer and think it would be a mistake at this point to fire him - at the moment. He did make it farther than any other coach since 2009 (and even then the offensive coach was basically Favre). He has put together a great team and they played well all year. That said, his playoff history is beyond disturbing. I posted some stats about it in the past but here it is again;

(Last 10 years - prior to this season)

• Bengals 2009 @ home against Jets - Gave up 171 rushing yards and 2 TDs. Allowed 12/15 182 yards 1TD/0INT to Mark Sanchez. 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FFs, lost 24-14 in the Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2011 @ Houston - Gave up 188 rushing yards and 2TDs. Passing game was ok; 11/20, 159 yards 1TD/0INT to T.J. Yates. 2 sacks, 0 INTS, 0 FFs Lost 31 - 10 in Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2012 @ Houston - Gave up 158 Rushing yards and 1 rushing TD. Matt Schaub went 29/38 for 262 yards 0TD/1INT. 0 Sacks, 1 INT, 0 FFs
• Bengals 2013 @ Home against Chargers - gave up 196 rushing yards and 2 rushing TDs. Rivers went 12/16 for 128 yards and 1TD/0INT. 1 sack, 0 INT, 0 FFs

**I didn't include the 2015 game because I feel the circumstances were somewhat extreme. Specifically the weather. However, it was much better.

The playoff game that a team led by him (as head coach or DC) actually did win came by a "miracle" on the last play of a game they should have handily won. The way the Eagles came out after the half and continued to control the game is what a better team would have done to the Saints.

In my opinion Zimmer has a history of his defenses being exposed in the playoffs. That's honestly what I think happened this year too. It seems like Sean Peyton went into the half of that game, was able to crack the defense, and then the Eagles simply copied this week. Maybe that's too simplistic but it sure seems like what happened.

There were also some pretty major injuries. Thielen wasn't himself but the Rhodes injury was a killer. With Griffin playing hurt we weren't getting enough pressure.

My biggest fear about Zimmer is that we end up in a similar situation to what his old team is in with Marvin Lewis. The guy has a winning record and has went to the playoffs 7 out of the 15 years he's been with the team. Including a run where they didn't miss in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, or 2015. However, he has not won a single playoff game. He's done well enough on a regular basis and is well liked enough to keep his job but I think it's obvious at this point the Bengals aren't going to the super bowl with him.

You can be sure next year the opponents will be viewing the Saints and Eagles games to see how to beat us. Zim better figure that out too.

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[Maelstrom88]

I generally have always thought it is better to have an offensive head coach so your scheme for the quarterback remains the same every year however Zimmer has done a very good job with this defense in beating Aaron Rodgers consistently. The extreme let down by the defense in the postseason is very concerning though. I understand Drew Brees is going to get his points but Nick Foles?! Seriously?! I might look to bring in someone from the Redskins staff as the offensive coordinator and signing Kirk Cousins. Clearly with how the defense performed in the playoffs this team needs more than a game manager at quarterback. It is also very frustrating how when the defensive line is not getting pressure Zimmer doesn't bring the Blitz. Also late and games when they opposing team is driving for a score he gets ultra conservative.

[J. Kapp 11]

Guys, here's another thing. The last 6 teams in the NFL to win a playoff game with a walk-off touchdown have lost their next game.

Almost everybody on this board was worried about this, and rightfully so. Case Keenum said he couldn't sleep for two days following the Saints miracle. That tells you a lot.

The Vikings were listless yesterday, especially on defense. Even on Philly's first drive, which resulted in a punt, our team got lucky. The Eagles missed a couple of shots that were open. And look at all the anomalies, things we never see out of our guys. We watched Anthony Barr whiff on tackles, which he hasn't done this year. We watched Everson Griffen lose contain. We watched Harrison Smith get beat over and over by a decent tight end, but not any better than tight ends he has handled in the past. We watched Xavier Rhodes, the best cornerback in football, look very average against mediocre receivers. The defense looked like the 2013 version of the Vikings that was last in the league in everything.

I guess what I'm saying is that from what I saw, I don't know if anything Zimmer could have done schematically would have changed the outcome of this game. Our team was lethargic, and I have to believe it was hangover from the previous week's mayhem. We simply got fooled by the ease at which we scored on the opening drive. That's not an excuse. You have to move on. You have to show up for every game with the same level of energy and emotion, and our team didn't. But sheesh ... teams just don't recover from last-second wins in the playoffs, let alone miracle 61-yard TDs in the final 10 seconds.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Guys, here's another thing. The last 6 teams in the NFL to win a playoff game with a walk-off touchdown have lost their next game.

Almost everybody on this board was worried about this, and rightfully so. Case Keenum said he couldn't sleep for two days following the Saints miracle. That tells you a lot.

The Vikings were listless yesterday, especially on defense. Even on Philly's first drive, which resulted in a punt, our team got lucky. The Eagles missed a couple of shots that were open. And look at all the anomalies, things we never see out of our guys. We watched Anthony Barr whiff on tackles, which he hasn't done this year. We watched Everson Griffen lose contain. We watched Harrison Smith get beat over and over by a decent tight end, but not any better than tight ends he has handled in the past. We watched Xavier Rhodes, the best cornerback in football, look very average against mediocre receivers. The defense looked like the 2013 version of the Vikings that was last in the league in everything.

I guess what I'm saying is that from what I saw, I don't know if anything Zimmer could have done schematically would have changed the outcome of this game. Our team was lethargic, and I have to believe it was hangover from the previous week's mayhem. We simply got fooled by the ease at which we scored on the opening drive. That's not an excuse. You have to move on. You have to show up for every game with the same level of energy and emotion, and our team didn't. But sheesh ... teams just don't recover from last-second wins in the playoffs, let alone miracle 61-yard TDs in the final 10 seconds.

Agreed Kapp. Good point. Fans have said also, teams are going to look at the Saints and Eagles games and find ways to beat us next year. No. Doesnt work like that. If that was the case, teams couldve looked at last years Indy game, or the previous years regular season Seattle game. We always end up throwing up a dud every year. This year we just did it at the worst possible time. I still believe this is an elite defense. It just seems they wore down towards the end.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Also, for the guys harping on Zimmers defense in the playoffs. Lets not forget this defense shut Seattle down in 2015. But Walsh f-ed up. So like I said, what he did when he was a coordinator, means nothing. It's what he's done since he's been OUR coach. In 3 playoffs games, Zims defense has

-shut down Seattle from start to finish
-shut down the Saints for 3 quarters
-laid an egg vs the Saints the last quarter plus
-laid an egg in the NFC Championship

I'm basing my opinion off of that. Not what he did 10 years ago. Bottom line is, no matter what he has a top defense in the league EVERY year. That is extremely hard to do. Bottom line is, we just have to put it all together from start to finish one year.

[S197]

I like Zimmer and think it would be a mistake at this point to fire him - at the moment. He did make it farther than any other coach since 2009 (and even then the offensive coach was basically Favre). He has put together a great team and they played well all year. That said, his playoff history is beyond disturbing. I posted some stats about it in the past but here it is again;

(Last 10 years - prior to this season)

• Bengals 2009 @ home against Jets - Gave up 171 rushing yards and 2 TDs. Allowed 12/15 182 yards 1TD/0INT to Mark Sanchez. 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FFs, lost 24-14 in the Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2011 @ Houston - Gave up 188 rushing yards and 2TDs. Passing game was ok; 11/20, 159 yards 1TD/0INT to T.J. Yates. 2 sacks, 0 INTS, 0 FFs Lost 31 - 10 in Wildcard round.
• Bengals 2012 @ Houston - Gave up 158 Rushing yards and 1 rushing TD. Matt Schaub went 29/38 for 262 yards 0TD/1INT. 0 Sacks, 1 INT, 0 FFs
• Bengals 2013 @ Home against Chargers - gave up 196 rushing yards and 2 rushing TDs. Rivers went 12/16 for 128 yards and 1TD/0INT. 1 sack, 0 INT, 0 FFs

**I didn't include the 2015 game because I feel the circumstances were somewhat extreme. Specifically the weather. However, it was much better.

The playoff game that a team led by him (as head coach or DC) actually did win came by a "miracle" on the last play of a game they should have handily won. The way the Eagles came out after the half and continued to control the game is what a better team would have done to the Saints.

In my opinion Zimmer has a history of his defenses being exposed in the playoffs. That's honestly what I think happened this year too. It seems like Sean Peyton went into the half of that game, was able to crack the defense, and then the Eagles simply copied this week. Maybe that's too simplistic but it sure seems like what happened.

There were also some pretty major injuries. Thielen wasn't himself but the Rhodes injury was a killer. With Griffin playing hurt we weren't getting enough pressure.

My biggest fear about Zimmer is that we end up in a similar situation to what his old team is in with Marvin Lewis. The guy has a winning record and has went to the playoffs 7 out of the 15 years he's been with the team. Including a run where they didn't miss in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, or 2015. However, he has not won a single playoff game. He's done well enough on a regular basis and is well liked enough to keep his job but I think it's obvious at this point the Bengals aren't going to the super bowl with him.

Came to reiterate this but glad you did it first as I don't really have the energy. I'm a supporter of Zimmer and he won't be fired obviously but his preparation and execution in the playoffs leaves much to be desired. There's simply no way a team should look that badly in a championship game. It was embarrassing and he needs to fix it. It's nice that we have a closet full of participation trophies but it isn't enough anymore.

[Mothman]

Guys, here's another thing. The last 6 teams in the NFL to win a playoff game with a walk-off touchdown have lost their next game.

Almost everybody on this board was worried about this, and rightfully so. Case Keenum said he couldn't sleep for two days following the Saints miracle. That tells you a lot.

The Vikings were listless yesterday, especially on defense. Even on Philly's first drive, which resulted in a punt, our team got lucky. The Eagles missed a couple of shots that were open. And look at all the anomalies, things we never see out of our guys. We watched Anthony Barr whiff on tackles, which he hasn't done this year. We watched Everson Griffen lose contain. We watched Harrison Smith get beat over and over by a decent tight end, but not any better than tight ends he has handled in the past. We watched Xavier Rhodes, the best cornerback in football, look very average against mediocre receivers. The defense looked like the 2013 version of the Vikings that was last in the league in everything.

I guess what I'm saying is that from what I saw, I don't know if anything Zimmer could have done schematically would have changed the outcome of this game. Our team was lethargic, and I have to believe it was hangover from the previous week's mayhem. We simply got fooled by the ease at which we scored on the opening drive. That's not an excuse. You have to move on. You have to show up for every game with the same level of energy and emotion, and our team didn't. But sheesh ... teams just don't recover from last-second wins in the playoffs, let alone miracle 61-yard TDs in the final 10 seconds.

Sometimes they don't, sometimes they do but it was Zimmer's job to make sure his team did, to make certain they were ready to play at a high level in their biggest game of the year and clearly, that didn't happen. That the team failed to meet the challenge falls on everybody's shoulders, players and coaches alike but even though the high of the last second win against NO may have been a factor, it's certainly not an excuse for such a sorry performance. Teams can come off an last second win like that and still win the following week. The '99 Titans won a wildcard game on the "Music City Miracle" play but that didn't stop from them from winning their next two games and playing a very competitive game in the Super Bowl.

[Purple Reign]

Our run game was weak, I think if Cook was playing, it would've been a different story.

Our D especially Rhodes was hurt and the Eagles took advantage of it.

Foles was a Pro Bowl QB with the eagles so IDK why people are surprised that he played decent.

Teddy was a pro bowl QB for us, and I dont really want him for us next year, other then a backup. We need a QB with a strong arm. I wonder how good Slotter is. Never hear a thing about him. I dont know if hes accurate or not. He seems to be a good size for a QB. But whoever plays, has to play behind a better Oline. They decided to suck about the same time as our Dline did.

I don't think you can compare Foles and Teddy just on the basis of getting to the Pro Bowl. You do realize the year Teddy went to the Pro Bowl was only because about 6 other qbs declined to go, don't you? Teddy's qb rating that year was 88.7 while Foles' qb rating the year he went to the Pro Bowl was 119.2. That's a more telling stat and it is a huge difference.

[Bowhunting Viking]

Fellow Viking fans please allow me to present a different view on this situation. I'm a 53 yr old HARDCORE purple bleeding Vikings maniac from NW Ohio. If you were to ask the majority of footbal fans , or people in veneral, who the biggest Vikings fan they know is I will guarantee you my name would be given. On the Tuesday before the Saints game my mom was admitted into our local hospital for torn ligaments in her hip, but spent the next 3 days complaining of a horrible headache. On the Saturday morning before the game she was transferred to a larger much better hospital right across the border in Indiana. She was diagnosed with a severe brain bleed stroke in a very unusual place. As stated I am hardcore and I have a closet full of Viking clothing . The ending of the Saints game was a small ray of sunshine. My dad and I have been at the hospital from morning til night ever since and I've had Viking shirts and Jerseys and diff coats etc. It's been amazing because a therapist that came in to see her said Great shirt , I am a Minny native and we are Viking fans. I had sonmany ppl all wk telling my dad and I that they were pulling for us. Thursday evening my mom had a very bad seizure and went code blue. Fortunately mom was able to come around. We were told yest morning that she will be moved to a rehab unit and had a very long recovery ahead. As I said I am 53 and have been a rabid fan since i was knee high and have lived through so much heartbreak over this team. The loss to the Falcons caused me to spend the next day puking my guys out due to a bad stomach. Bountygate / Morreli crew screwing had me an angry powder keg for weeks. My dad MADE me to home last night to watch the game to get a break from the hospital. I really thought last night we would win and again give dad and I some happiness after a very sad and stressful few wks. Unfortunately it didn't happen. Did it hurt AGAIN.. well YES it did. . Alot. But after the game, well actually byb the 4th qtr, my wife said This is the 1st time I've ever seen you where the game isn't the most important thing at the time. Guys I wanted us to win and go play in our home and hopefully destroy the Pats and the trophy that I have coveted ever since i was a little boy. This morning a nurse on my mom's unit who has been admiring my rabid loyalty to the Vikings came up as soon as I got there and gave me a huge hug. She said young man I do not watch football, but last night I watched the game with my husband just to root for you and your team. She said I really hurt for you. I thanked her and said it really was a disappointment and really hurt. Then she said in sure it did, but I hope you realize that it was just a football game . She pointed at mom's room and said in that room is what really matters in this life. Your mom has been fighting to live and will now need to fight through therapy and frustration to get back to be the vibrant and energetic wife, mother and grandmother that she was a few wks ago. AND she isn't being paid millions of dollars to do it. She said so please realize what is really important in life. Before this I've always said all I need to die happy is a Vikings Super Bowl win. Suddenly I did realize... as hard core if a fan as I am and as BAD as always thought that I just HAD to see us win the SB, I've been humbled a little and realized that yes.. indeed.. it is still a game. Someday maybe I will see the dream happen, but as of now I just want my mom to get better.Suddenly i would trade a win in every SB from now on for that

[Mothman]

Also, for the guys harping on Zimmers defense in the playoffs. Lets not forget this defense shut Seattle down in 2015. But Walsh f-ed up. So like I said, what he did when he was a coordinator, means nothing.

Of course it does. It was his performance as a Dc that got him the HC job in the first place and since Zimmer arrived in Minnesota, the premise from fans (and seemingly the organization) has been that he will build an elite defense and that defense will be the key to winning the Super Bowl.

If the premise is an elite defense will be the key to a championship, it's relevant to look at the history of Zimmer's defenses and ask, "Where are the postseason games where his defense was so elite they carried a team to victory?" Even if you want to consider the 2015 game that kind of "win" for the defense (despite the loss) there's little in Zimmer's 18 year history as a DC/HC to suggest a he can field a defense so good it will carry a team through a postseason run to a title.

Bottom line is, no matter what he has a top defense in the league EVERY year. That is extremely hard to do. Bottom line is, we just have to put it all together from start to finish one year.

Can they do that? It's a valid question because it hasn't happened yet and, as you pointed out, they've laid an egg in 2 of their 3 playoff games. Having a top defense during the regular season, against a mixed bag of competition, is one thing. Having a defense that can continue playing at a high level through an entire postseason, against the better teams in the league, is different.

[Bowhunting Viking]

... and I am sorry that I ran all that together in one paragraph. I am typing this in a dark hospital room and am extremely exhausted right now, so grammar and sentence structure isn't really on my mind right now.

[Cliff]

Also, for the guys harping on Zimmers defense in the playoffs. Lets not forget this defense shut Seattle down in 2015. But Walsh f-ed up. So like I said, what he did when he was a coordinator, means nothing. It's what he's done since he's been OUR coach. In 3 playoffs games, Zims defense has

-shut down Seattle from start to finish
-shut down the Saints for 3 quarters
-laid an egg vs the Saints the last quarter plus
-laid an egg in the NFC Championship

I'm basing my opinion off of that. Not what he did 10 years ago. Bottom line is, no matter what he has a top defense in the league EVERY year. That is extremely hard to do. Bottom line is, we just have to put it all together from start to finish one year.

Just basing my opinion off of that time frame isn't great either.

- "Shut down Seattle" ... then how did they win? The weather was crazy and neither offense could get anything going. Another thing to consider if we insist on looking at him strictly as an HC - that means he's responsible for what the offense has looked like too. So in that Seattle game you could also say "he was shut down on offense".
- "Shut down the Saints for 3 Quarters" ... and still managed to nearly lose the game. The defense gave up 24 points in a quarter and a half.
- No point in talking about the Eagles game, it's indisputably terrible.

This isn't me saying Zimmer is a bad coach. His record is 39-25 (.609) which would be pretty great if maintained. He's made it to the playoffs in 2 of his 4 seasons including one trip to the NFCC (of course, we were slaughtered but he still made it).

Hopefully he can figure out how to translate that in-season success to a super bowl but so far he's only translated it into 1 playoff win that happened on the back of a "miracle".

How long do you stick with him if he continues to lose in the playoffs? If he keeps posting 10+ win seasons but losing in the first round of the playoffs (or getting beaten to a pulp if the do make it out of their first game) at what point do you try to go another way?

[Purple Reign]

But, that being said, I have to look at the fact that we made it to the NFCCG with a back-up QB and our number one RB out for most of the year. Can any other team come close to saying that? Has another team ever done that before? I only wish I knew who the QB was going to be next year.

While Philly didn't lose their number #1 back, they did lose Sproles, who was a big part of their offense. Before we drafted Cook, Murray was brought in to be our #1 back. They also had a number of other key personnel go out for the year (especially on defense) so they have a good argument that they were hurt more by injuries this year than we were, but I realize it is subjective.