Interesting.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2017 ... hine-allen

I hope Allen reads this.

Yes indeed and I commented on that after the game and as I recall Mr. Kapp took exception to my commentary about Allen.. I have noticed an increase in these types of games coming from Allen and even went so far as suggesting trading him for a player or draft picks to upgrade the team in other areas. I believe that Griffin might fill in and become a Dwight Freeney type force on the other side away from Robison. Having 22 sacks in a season sounds great but against what teams and what impact did it actualy have on the outcome of these games. Do not get me wrong, I really like Allen but he is getting older and there have been way too many games when his name barely shows up on a stat sheet.

No offense, but you want to trade the best 4-3 DE in the league after a 22 sack campaign?

One game does not a season make.

Why does that matter? Freeney, Strahan, Lawrence Taylor, Peppers, Ware, didn't/don't go up against top-5 tackles every game. You think they only accumulate stats against strong opponents? Great players abuse poor players. And it's not like Allen didn't show up last season. And even the greatest players today don't have monster games every single week.

I once again refer to this analysis: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... a-vikings/

+35.1 overall grade
+19.0 pass rush
+12.6 rush defense
66 QB disruptions

An excerpt:





Any time you sack or disrupt a QB into turning the ball over, it affects the outcome of games. In general, you can't put a win or loss on a defensive end's performance in a team sport. I might be mistaken, but it sounds like you're implying that if the sack didn't obviously contribute significantly to the outcome of a game (a sack on 4th-and-goal when leading by a point or something) than its meaning is diminished. I don't know how one would begin to weight sacks. All I know is Allen more often than not shows up when it counts. In addition to 22 sacks, he had 66 total tackles (which I believe was third for all DEs last season), 4 forced fumbles, an interception and 3 defended passes.



Feel free to let me know which games last year where his name wasn't on the stat sheet as one of the most dominant players on the field: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_ ... ared-allen

There were only three games last season he failed to register a sack (JPP, for example, had four. And only a half sack in four playoff games). Hurries/pressures aren't officially listed but they count and he has a bunch. Don't undermine their worth to a defense, even if they aren't an official statistic. You might be watching different games than I do.

Our team is considerably better with Allen on the field. Our chances of winning are greater with him on the field. I'm all for winning. Though I suppose the case could be made for getting a player with potential for later. But I guarantee you'd be weakening the team now for potential later. That's a pretty big gamble.

I see the reasoning behind the idea of trading Allen. But I think his value to the Vikings is more than the value he'd bring in return.

I do too. I hope it gets Allen hyper motivated. The team needs him to be a force out there.

I was dead set against trading Allen mainly because of his monster performance last year and his 5 consecutive years with double digit sack totals. Also, I don't buy that sacks aren't important. They are tackles for a loss and can kill drives.

I just hope this was a one game event and we're not seeing a decline in Allen's skills.

I am generaly on the same page as you but I think that your stat sheet bolsters my argument. When you look at his numbers and do keep in mind that sacks are counted as solo tackles he only had a total of 26 solo tackles (plus the 22 sacks) and only 18 assisted tackles ( which are counted in the 66 number of tackles he posted for the whole year and average out to be 1.125 assists per game.
Talk about games last year where he was next to invisible (like he was against the Jags) look at the Tampa game 2 total tackles, the Chiefs game 2 sacks and no other tackles or assists in the entire game, the Oakland game, 2 total tacles for the whole game, The Saints game 2 total tackles for the whole game. Yes he made the Pro Bowl DE last year but his monster sack total (3.5 against the Bears in one game) garnered him the status.
This team is trying to rebuild with younger players and although not too old Allen is getting up there. My idea was, while his value is up and the team is rebuilding, to trade him for high draft picks and let young tallent like Griffin be given the opprotunity take over and see how he stacks up. Just my humble opinion.

The time to do that would have been this past offseason. If Allen approaches the trade deadline still looking like he did against Jacksonville, he won't fetch much in a trade.

Sacks are not the be all end all stat, they are just the most flashy stat. Allen changes the complexity of a game from a passing standpoint. Having him at LE limits the time an offense feels it has to safely pass the football. Is it possible that since the majority of the Jag's passing completions were on short yardage routes that Allen had very limited opportunity to get to the passer? Yes, he could still get to him, but when it is a 2 sec release, that is a tough nut to crack. Also, might part of the reason they were running so many dink and dunk pases be because of Allen?

I pointed this out in the game thread right after the conclusion. No, I don't think we should trade him and I'm sure he'll be fine down the road but this was a very disappointing performance for him. It wasn't because he was getting doubled or chipped, he was flat out dominated by a tackle that outplayed him. We've seen this before but usually it's by top tier tackles (like when Joe Thomas shut him down), Monroe isn't exactly in the same tier. I don't question Allen's heart, motor, whatever you want to call it but when you're on the sidelines screaming at your teammates as was tweeted during the game, you better walk the walk.

Allen will face a very inexperienced and battered Colts O-line so hopefully he will more than make up for last week.

I don't know but IMO the Vikings defense weren't aggressive at all. They played their classic "let's not cover anyone and make the tackle 20 yards after the catch" Leslie Frazier defense. God forbid they could throw in a blitz or two and maybe he'll get to the QB.

Like the blitz where CB Chris Cook sacked the QB?

Hah. I was thrilled to see that happen but a little more of that would be nice.

Allen is a one trick pony,a very good pass rusher but he's not considered the BEST in the game..

Kinda like everyone knows Adrian Peterson is the best RB in the NFL,even tough other RBs have better stats (like Chris Johnson 2000 yards season).

I would disagree on Allen being a one trick pony. He's generally very solid in run support and also does a good job of using his hands (either to deflect passes or strip the QB) when he can't make the hit. In fact, at one point last season I think he was the only defender with an interception after a multiple-game dry spell by our secondary. As for being the best pass rusher in the game, I think the only other player who might have a claim at that is Pierre-Paul, curious as to who you think is a better pure pass rusher than Allen.

You don't trade him based on the one game, you trade him based on the 22 sack campaign that has his value at an all time high. And all the games in the future where a potential free agent (end of this year? Or next?) who's 30 years old and toward the end of his prime will bring back enough that you can help a rebuilding team fill more than just one hole for years to come. (or at least that's the idea)

The tape does not lie and shows just how much my perception was off. I thought I saw Allen doubled and chipped, but that obviously was not the case. On the positive side, Robison more than made up for Allen's rough game. Plus, considering his history, I am willing to give Allen the benefit of the doubt. All players have games they wish they could forget. Hopefully, we as fans are not so addicted to drama that we begin a "JA watch".

It's scary when you hear NFL people and teammates say JPP is still learning the mental aspect of the game,and still he had 16 sacks last year. Jason Pierre-Paul will be the best in few years.

But right now the best DE/LB is Demarcus Ware.Dallas had 4/3 D before Rob Ryan came last year.Allen is no Julius Peppers either,and he doesn't impact the vikings D like those players.

I agree that Allen is very good player,but the best defensive ends are UNBLOCK-ABLE one on one.

I think you'd have to consider Ware right up there with those guys as well

Many would agree that he's the best in the league right now.

FWIW, Pelissero claims Allen was persistently chipped, while Prisco claims he was chipped only a few times. I don't have the game taped, so I can't confirm or deny either claim. I guess it doesn't really matter at this point. I just thought it was interesting.

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Brea ... uars091112


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2017 ... hine-allen

You're telling me you've never seen Allen unblockable one on one? if you haven't I suggest you rewatch the season closer last year against the bears. If we're talking the model of inconsistency, Julius Peppers is that. He is very blockable one on one, but when he's on his game and against a lesser opponent (like last night with Newhouse) he can be unblockable.

I don't know what it is about Allen's game that constantly underrated in comparison to other pass rushers, but the dude has the most sacks of any player since entering the league. He gets the reputation as a "try hard" or "strong motor" guy, and for good reason, but that's not to say that he doesn't have a great first step or a plethora of pass rush moves.

JA and DeMarcus Ware are the cream of the crop. That doesn't mean they can't be contained on an individual game's basis, but either one as the ability to take over a game and they do it more often than they don't

Come on, man.

I didn't take exception to you calling him out, and I said so. I agreed with you that he was a non-factor against the Jags.

You said it happens all too often. I took exception to that.

And you've "noticed an increase"? Seriously? That's your argument? Mine's PFF. Guys who watch and break down every single play. See what they had to say about him last year and get back to me.

I've seen Allen and other DE unblockable plenty of times,but i meant the best pass rushers in the NFL are unblockable one on one when the game is on the line for their team.



Cutler was the most sacked Qb in the NFL in 2010 (52) and (24) in 10 games in 2011.Therefore any pass rusher gets their way against the bears Oline.After watching the bears vs packers last night,heck i can get a sack against the Bears oline.




I agree with Peppers being the model of inconsistence,but i disagree that he's only unblockable against lesser opponents.

Also,when you asked me to watch Jarred Allen vs the bears game last year. I'm guessing you wanted me to watch Allen 3 sacks vs Newhouse...




The knock on J. Allen in comparison to other premier pass rushers is that he's not as disruptive the game on the line,on third downs or when he plays good tackles (let's not even talk about when he plays best left tackles).

[/quote]

A guy named Monroe will never block one on one the NFL cream of the crop pass rushers for a full game.

La Crème de la Crème NFL pass rushers: D. Ware,T. Suggs,J. Pierre-Paul,Aldon Smith,and those players can stop the run as well.

I can't believe you're actually placing that much emphasis on a DE's stat line. A DE can have a good game and barely register a stat! That may make him "next to invisible" statistically but on the field, he could have been pressuring the QB, sealing the edge against the run, taking on multiple blockers (which helps someone else get free to make the tackle), etc. Looking at a stat line is a poor way to evaluate a defensive lineman's performance.

This is where you lose any credibility, "a guy named Monroe."

Just because you don't know who Eugene Monroe is doesn't mean he's some scrub that somehow shut down Allen. Monroe is actually a pretty solid LT and a former 1st round pick. He's not Joe Thomas or anything but he's not Charlie Johnson either.

Jared Allen and DeMarcus Ware are 1a. and 1b. in terms of best pass rusher in the NFL. If you wanna say Ware is better I won't argue, but you are seriously underrating Jared Allen. Let's just ignore a 22 sack season because he got shut down in week 1 the next year.

I know Monroe is way better than Charlie Johnson,but he DOMINATED jarred Allen...

Last night, on AFC Playbook, Brian Baldinger said he thinks Monroe has quietly become the best tackle drafted in recent years... including Jake Long. Maybe he's just a talented player coming into his prime and reaching his potential.

Let's not forget that Allen flew right by him early in the game to sack Gabbert. He was called offsides but the replay suggested otherwise. Allen had a nice pressure or two early in the game too but overall, Monroe clearly got the best of him.

Allen has traditionally been a slow starter so I doubt his week 1 performance is anything to be concerned about.

This is what happens when a guy almost breaks the sack record the year before. The expectations get so high that if he doesn't come out and blow the doors off then, comparatively speaking, he got "dominated".

Jared Allen is going to have a harder time this year. That's the nature of the game, and it happens to players and teams. Witness the significant dropoff in production by the Packer offense from last year. Last year the Packers were tearing it up from the get-go in terms of yards and points. This year, not so much. They return pretty much all of their starters, including their "do-no-wrong" QB, and yet so far two defenses have found a way to limit them despite both games being in Green Bay.

Allen nearly sets the sack record, so it stands to reason that this season he's going to get everyone's best game. No LT is going to head into a game against the Vikings without a specific plan and help to neutralize Allen. As good as he has been prior to last season, he's one of the few A-list players that every offense is going to gameplan to deal with. I think that's some of what we saw in terms of his performance against the Jags.

While I'd love to believe Allen can get upwards of 20 sacks this year again, the reality is that he's going to really struggle to get 10-15. However, while the sack total may drop off, as many have pointed out, just by commanding that attention and playing fundamentally solid, Allen can (and will) still have a major contribution to the success of the Viking defense this season.

Well said!